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G&W
posted to the public at 4:43 PM on Sunday Jun 10, 2012
Is 10th best character imo.

S tier
ICs
MK
Olimar

A tier
Diddy
Snake
Falco
Pikachu
Marth
Wario

B tier
G&W


He's arguably even with MK, Snake, Pikachu, and Wario.
He's -1 with Olimar, Diddy, and Falco.
He's -2 with Marth.
He's -3 with ICs.

He has quite an impressive matchup spread otherwise.

He goes even with the entirety of B tier, except he beats Peach/Pit/Wolf/Lucario.

He beats everyone below that, other than being even with Sheik.

Hopefully I can break out my G&W more. I like using ICs way too much though. I honestly feel like he's better than 10th best, but I don't have any proof until I start using him more in tourney.

Thoughts? Post your opinion (intelligent opinions only please), I'd like to actually discuss G&W being a top level character. He's way too underrated.

Comments

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Vato_break wrote at 4:44 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
even with mk?

Vinnie C wrote at 4:46 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
I always thought it was -1 or 0. I'm leaning towards 0, though. I go even with Nairo in that MU and evenish with M2k in it, the only times I ever lose the MU is when I feel like I got outplayed.

Before anyone says "hurr durr they don't know the matchup", I've been playing the MU with them for like 2+ years now. Also, ANTi knows the MU the best out of anyone ever, and we still go even when we train in that MU.

ChiboSempai wrote at 4:49 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
I personally think MK is -1 and Diddy is -2, otherwise I agree with what you said.

He also goes even with ROB :p

Weegee wrote at 4:50 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
G&W is broken

Delux wrote at 4:50 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Maybe you know how to play even with Anti (or 3 stock his snake) regardless of character.

Stingers wrote at 4:50 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
i dont see it...its entirely up to the player to land kills, the character gives you little options for doing so. I dont see how a char like that can be top. ZSS has the same problem, but at least shes got safe aerials...

Vinnie C wrote at 4:52 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
I've double 2 stocked Holy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNssSu2LCbY)
I've beaten you every time in the MU (except when I lost to you in early 2010)
I beat OCEAN in the sets we did.

It's pretty clear that G&W has some type of advantage vs ROB. lol.

Vinnie C wrote at 4:53 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
(@chibo)

also @stingers, G&W has safe aerials o_O

Also, his uair is one of the best moves in the game, and everyone seems to forget that his dair kills at 135 average, while fresh.

Malice wrote at 4:53 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
More G&W pl0x <3

Sorg wrote at 4:56 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Shoutouts to LeePuff

southpaw24 wrote at 4:56 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
I think g@w is as good as d3. I also think lucario is above him. And rob is also super underrated.
I've never understood why g@w has dropped so bad.

Vinnie C wrote at 4:58 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
southpaw24 wrote at 4:56 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
I've never understood why g@w has dropped so bad.

I do. There aren't any top placing G&Ws other than me (and Leepuff I guess but he hasn't entered since when he got 4th). Also, I don't use G&W nearly as much as I use ICs, so that probably hurts it too. Poor character representation = the character will end up being underrated.

Broccoli Kong wrote at 5:04 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
DK and G&W even? Hmmmm... But yeah I agree. G&W is very underused.

Gardex wrote at 5:05 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
It's funny because this isn't even the most optimistic view of G&W among G&W-users

southpaw24 wrote at 5:08 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
and yet mjg is enough to show that tl is high tier by not making it to bracket at apex.

Vinnie C wrote at 5:08 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Gardex wrote at 5:05 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
It's funny because this isn't even the most optimistic view of G&W among G&W-users

Well, yeah. I'm not delusional, I'm not going to say that he's top 5 when he's not. I'm just trying to make people realize that this character is actually good xD.

ChronoTrigger wrote at 5:17 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Vinnie and Will have you two played eachother in the GW:DK MU? Cuz I see you don't believe it's even Will lol

Mitt Romney the Hedgehog wrote at 5:30 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Let me play you the song of my people

Plasma. wrote at 5:48 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Why is G&W vs Sheik even? I feel like it's +1 G&W But it's probably because I honestly don't know the match up. But I do agree with your blog (outside of even with MK). Never knew why he dropped to Borderline.

Pentasalia wrote at 5:54 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
orly

Vinnie C wrote at 6:03 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
G&W vs Sheik:

Sheik can get inside G&W's range. Her froll is really good. Needles stop everything G&W has. GR dacus works on G&W and kills at like 85. She also has ftilt combos (not extremely gay 0-120 ftilt combos obviously, but like 30-80 or whatever). She can also edgeguard him pretty well, and is one of the better characters at avoiding getting killed (despite her lightness).

G&W is a powerhouse, though. Up B is really useful in this MU, as well as dtilt near the ledge. He's also put at a really good advantage if he gets the chance to land a smash or two.

Mew2King wrote at 6:03 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Metaknight loses to GnW at top top play, you read anything and I get RAPED!

Atomsk wrote at 6:05 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
DDD is better.

Jamnt0ast wrote at 6:07 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
MK beats gnw if mk never approaches m2k lol.
Also gnw is + 1 on rob imo.

-Remix- wrote at 6:09 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
ICs are not better than MK. I just don't agree with that at all. However, I do believe ICs are the second best character in the game.

Crazy Aleks wrote at 6:10 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
no one plays GW. ****'s mysterious. U'd beat my MK and whatever else pretty consistantly since the MU exp suck.

M2K is a tool who simply plays like a robot and is pretty predictable.

Vex Kasrani wrote at 6:11 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Between 8th and 11th, he's definitely not bad, but I feel you're overrating GnW vs MK, it's only even when you have a slight lead, otherwise, if MK has like, 50% lead, the matchup can change drastically to MK's favor. I don't think the matchup is awful, I just feel it's ATLEAST -1, with a large lead, it turns into -2 or -3 imo.
I think Olimar is slightly worse, but you are much better in that matchup then I am, hate Olimar!
I've thought up of some new strategies vs Falco, it's possibly even, definitely one of his easiest top tier matchups.
Snake is probably even, if not slight advantage towards him(definite advantage if he has port priority)
I think GnW BEATS Wario, to much zone control in the air vs Wario imo
GnW beats Pika me thinks

Chibo, GnW beats rob like 6:4

GnW good, just frustrating to play sometimes, because he can be camped really badly by certain characters!

Vinnie C wrote at 6:11 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Jamnt0ast wrote at 6:07 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
MK beats gnw if mk never approaches m2k lol.

This is such 2009 mentality. :/ non mk/g&w mains will never understand lol. It's between -1 and 0 (mk's favor or even). MK has the tools to poke and pressure G&W really easily, but the dying differences is pretty substantial. G&W is also one of the few characters in this game that can effectively edgeguard MK.

Also, G&W is one of the two characters in this game that can punish a MK's shuair on shield (if I'm on a platform, I can up b oos and even though he's below me, he still gets hit). The only other character that can punish a MK shuair oos on a platform is metaknight.

-Remix- wrote at 6:12 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
As for Gnw, i think the mu with mk might for 48-52 based off how i've seen you play against m2k and nairo with him.

Vato_break wrote at 6:14 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Mario can also punish shuair on sheild, if the upairs are not tippered, with an upB OoS

Atomsk wrote at 6:15 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Ever see Vinnie face my MK with GW? Trollface.jpg

Vinnie C wrote at 6:16 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
The Guru wrote at 6:14 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Mario can also punish shuair on sheild, if the upairs are not tippered, with an upB OoS

I'm talking about perfectly spaced uairs under your shield.

Mew2King wrote at 6:16 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
WHO IS ON MY ACCOUNT WHAT THE **** LOL

I DIDNT POST THAT

Jamnt0ast wrote at 6:19 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
LOL

Crazy Aleks wrote at 6:21 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
LMAOOO change ur pass

Vinnie C wrote at 6:22 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Change your password to 37youlose

dabuz the horrible wrote at 6:23 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Oli is +2 vs. G&W <3

Vinnie C wrote at 6:24 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
dabuz the horrible wrote at 6:23 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Oli is +2 vs. G&W <3

You said it was +1 last time we talked about it. :x

Pentasalia wrote at 6:26 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Dabuz went from saying it he agreed it was even, to +1, now +2 lol.

xMARx wrote at 6:27 PM on Jun 10, 2012 :
Diddy rapes gaw. Easily one of his hardest mus he can't get in at all. If the gaw plays patient and the diddy plays smart the only possible conclusion is diddy timing out the game and watch. All neutral stages diddy is at least -2. Apex ruleset he's still -2 because gaw won't win game 1 and he can go even with him on every other stage. Gaw only rapes diddy on rc and brin.

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