2010 NFL Season Discussion - meh

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#941
4:39 PM Mar 20 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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they got a $36 million cap hit compared to the cowboy s $10

they would only have to get a #2 WR in the next draft, do what the lions did, draft your god like receiver then draft your franchise QB in a future draft
#942
3:11 AM Mar 21 2012 2012
Johnknight1
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Regardless, the Cowboys and Redskins failed to do anything in that season before the lockout, despite both teams being hyped as teams that could win the Super Bowl.

Seriously though, I still think the Redskins have basically sacrificed all their cap space and probably a few good defensive players for a bunch of #2 and #3 wide receivers. That Pierre Garcon deal is another typical Dan Snyder deal. Still, they are gonna get one heck of a quarterback in RGIII.

By the way, I haven't said this yet, but I am almost as high on RGIII as I was on Can Newton last year (I felt he'd either be above average or magnificent, and he seems to be the latter). Meanwhile, I am even higher on Andrew Luck. Those two quarterbacks, I think, are light years above the others in the draft (at least currently).

I think the last time we saw multiple quarterbacks of this high caliber quality was back with Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Big Ben were drafted early in the 1st round (with Matt Schuab going in the 3rd round).

Last years' draft had ridiculous depth though. Cam Newton and Andy Dalton were excellent; Cam Newton has endless potential. Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, and T.J. Yates showed tons of promise. Blaine Gabbert wasn't bad (I thought he would be a flat out mega bust). Colin Kaepernick and Ryan Mallett (if he stops imitating Ryan Leaf and starts imitating Tom Brady) I think have potential to be longtime franchise quarterbacks. Greg McElroy, Terrelle Pryor, and maybe Scott Tolzien could all at least be solid backups in the NFL for a long time.

The year before that, there was only one franchise quarterback (Sam Bradford), one mega bust (Jimmy Clausen), two guys that could be solid longtime backups (Colt McCoy and John Skelton), one guy who looks like he could develop into solid backups (Mike Kafka and Joe Webb), and some guy named "Timmy" who seems like a nice 3rd string quarterback and situational quarterback (although he was a huge reach).

@ Mood
"god like" receivers don't come around too often. Justin Blackmon may be that, but that is yet to be seen. The only "god like" receivers in the NFL IMO are Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Steven Smith of the Panthers.

Edit: This video sums up what could happen if Dan Snyder gets any bit dumber, lol!
Last edited by Johnknight1, 3:50 AM on Mar 21, 2012
#943
10:48 PM Mar 21 2012 2012
Riddle McGriddle
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You forgot A.J. Green. ;|

Sure, you can deny that he's not there yet but short of the inexplicable, the guy is going to be ridiculously good.

And, again, this year, they almost made it. I'm well aware that Flacco was not to blame for the loss. But the guy leans far too much on his defense and his RB that a top-tier QB capable of winning the Super Bowl should. This year was probably as close as he was gonna get--it won't be too much longer before Ray Lewis and Ed Reed finally call it quits. This offseason hasn't been the greatest for them and despite how much Ratbirds' fans love to suck his ****, Ozzie Newsome is not as good as they try to bill him. He's not on the Squeelers' GM's level.

Hell, Mike Brown has outmanaged him in the past couple of years and that's saying a metric ****ton of how much Brown's improved.

[12:53:28 PM] Volke Aeno: Eklipse likes Magical boys better.
#944
11:13 PM Mar 21 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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the browns are a QB, WR, RB combo away from being a legit contender, the defense is great, the o-line is very good, they just need the skill positions to win them the game
#945
6:34 PM Mar 22 2012 2012
Johnknight1
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@ Riddle McGriddle
I agree A.J. probably will be a "god like" receiver, but he's not yet, and there are no guarantees. However, he is getting there pretty fast.

Flacco will probably get better as Ed Reed and Ray Lewis continue to get worse due to age, but they still got Ngata and Suggs to anchor that defense, along with great non-star players.

Also, Ozzie Newsome is a great GM. He drafted all those guys on that defense, and has Hall of Famers on every level of the defense (Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Ed Reed) whereas none of the guys on the Browns or Bengals defense is at that level (Geno Atkins may be soon, but not yet).

@ mood
The Browns O-Line have to upgrade their left side of their O-Line. Mack and Thomas are All-Pro level O-Linemen. Their defense needs at least one upgrade at a starting defensive linemen and linebacker position. Mostly the Browns just needs a top tier half back (anyone from Oregon), two quality wide receivers (they currently have ZERO!), and an actual quarterback (draft one and sign an undervalued free agent).

Also, lol at Stanford's practice facility still having Jim Harbaught's motto. I just watched highlights of Andrew Luck's Pro Day. Luck and RGIII... they keep getting better. The NFC and AFC East should be scared out of their minds.
Last edited by Johnknight1, 6:58 PM on Mar 22, 2012
#946
12:50 AM Mar 23 2012 2012
Riddle McGriddle
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Don't forget Dunlap, and I wouldn't call Ngata a surefire HoFer yet.

Also, no, Flacco probably won't get better. The Flacco you see now is probably the Flacco you're going to get.

[12:53:28 PM] Volke Aeno: Eklipse likes Magical boys better.
#947
12:31 PM Mar 23 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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why should i be scared? I have eli manning, the unflappable
#948
10:24 PM Mar 24 2012 2012
Queensryche
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RE: Luck & Griffin III.

First, there's no guarantees with either of them. So many "can't miss" prospects did end up missing. I can say with all the time I've been watching football, the ONLY time I would've ever bet the farm on a draftee was on Larry Fitzgerald. Of all the draftees, he was the only one I've seen yet that I was certain he was gonna be something big.

Second, even if Griffin III turns out alright, he's STILL on the worst-run and worst-performing team in the NFC East. And he's got a lot of work to do to catch up to the other QBs in the division. He hasn't played a single snap yet, and he's got some work to do before he's as good as or better than Eli Manning, Tony Romo, or Michael Vick. Catching up to Manning will be a superb accomplishment. It'll be major if he catches up to Romo or Vick.

And third............why should the AFC East be scared of Andrew Luck? The Colts play in the AFC South.


Also: no reaction to Hines Ward retiring, Riddle? I figured you would've had some sort of minor celebration since I know you dislike him.

Maybe you can also explain why so many people think he played dirty. I know he's thrown blindside blocks (and injured more than a few people) but I never saw him go after someone's knees or head with intent, and I don't remember flags being thrown after his blocks. Maybe it's a perception thing, but I figure that if it's done within the scope of the rules, then it can't possibly be dirty.

As for my opinion on his HoF candidacy.............in the end I say no, he isn't a Hall of Famer. He was never an elite WR. I don't even think he was ever a top 20 receiver. Barely a year or two perhaps, but never consistently. Plus, he was known more for his blocking than his receiving. That's a problem for me, since a WR is supposed to catch the ball first and foremost.
Last edited by Queensryche, 1:30 AM on Mar 25, 2012
#949
1:42 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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if he gets in, it's because of his blocking skill, he is the best blocking receiver of our generation and that says something

that's the only way he gets in

the redskins have a solid team, if RGIII is anything like cam newton, they could win the division
#950
4:06 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
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Quote (originally posted by Queensryche):

Also: no reaction to Hines Ward retiring, Riddle? I figured you would've had some sort of minor celebration since I know you dislike him.
I laughed when I saw it but it was mostly a blip on my interests. I don't really care, he's gone now, I knew he was leaving since early in the offseason, and honestly he wasn't a threat at all last season.

Quote:
Maybe you can also explain why so many people think he played dirty. I know he's thrown blindside blocks (and injured more than a few people) but I never saw him go after someone's knees or head with intent, and I don't remember flags being thrown after his blocks. Maybe it's a perception thing, but I figure that if it's done within the scope of the rules, then it can't possibly be dirty.

>blindside blocks and injured some people

Any Bengals fan remembers this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbraVljIrc

But yeh, that'd be it. It's one thing to complain about all the defenseless receivers rules but they almost always have time to see the guy coming and brace for the hit running up behind guys and laying the wood is just as ridiculous and dirty. It's equivalent to sucker punching.

Quote:
As for my opinion on his HoF candidacy.............in the end I say no, he isn't a Hall of Famer. He was never an elite WR. I don't even think he was ever a top 20 receiver. Barely a year or two perhaps, but never consistently. Plus, he was known more for his blocking than his receiving. That's a problem for me, since a WR is supposed to catch the ball first and foremost.

I don't think so either. Good? Yes. Outstanding blocker and the like, but he never was a huge gamebreaker.

[12:53:28 PM] Volke Aeno: Eklipse likes Magical boys better.
#951
5:11 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Queensryche
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That hit looked fine to me. Hard block, yes, but well within the bounds of the rules. It was also part of an ongoing play as well, so I don't see any problem with it.

It's just my opinion, but if he does it within the bounds of the rules, it's not dirty. If he did his blocks away from plays or something to that effect, it would be the equivalent of a sucker punch. But directly impacting a play? I see no problem with it.
#952
7:05 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Riddle McGriddle
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It's just...the way he does it.

I don't care about the fact that he's blocking, I care that it's blindsided and he would always do it blindsided.

[12:53:28 PM] Volke Aeno: Eklipse likes Magical boys better.
#953
8:54 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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that one wasn't that bad, there was one a few years ago where he broke the guys jaw, i thought that one was dirty
#954
9:55 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Queensryche
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Quote (originally posted by Riddle McGriddle):
It's just...the way he does it.

I don't care about the fact that he's blocking, I care that it's blindsided and he would always do it blindsided.


But my question is if he does it within the scope of the rules and it's legal, how can it be dirty?

Yes, he blocked blindsided. But blindside hits happen all the time, and so long as they're in the scope of the rules (meaning the hit is a part of a play in progress and isn't one going after a guy's head or knees), then there shouldn't be any complaints. Ward didn't stomp on hands, or gouge other players' eyes, or constantly yank facemasks, or try to kick someone in the groin. THOSE to me are dirty. Ward? His play is aggressive and violent, but nowhere NEAR dirty. James Harrison though, he's dirty. Same with Ndamokung Suh. Ward? Nowhere near their level.

Also Mood......that video Riddle posted up, the guy Ward blasted (Keith Rivers) IS the guy who got his jaw broken, and it happened on that play! But that hit? Rivers should've been watching himself and more aware of his surroundings. Not Ward's fault that Rivers wasn't looking.
#955
10:32 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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that was the play? that angle really didn't make it look dirty
#956
11:15 PM Mar 25 2012 2012
Queensryche
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Quote (originally posted by Mood4food77):
that was the play? that angle really didn't make it look dirty


Yep, that was the play where Keith Rivers got his jaw broken.

Violent? Yes. Dirty? I don't think so.
#957
1:36 AM Mar 26 2012 2012
Riddle McGriddle
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How many times do you hear about players having their gogdamn jaws broken though? It's very, very strange to hear of any kind of a facial injury, much less broken jaws.

Also this:
Quote (originally posted by yeh, it's wikipedia, idgaf):
Ward often faced criticism for his style of blocking, particularly for his propensity to hit defenders on their blind-side. During a game on October 19, 2008, Ward put a vicious downfield blindside block on rookie Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Keith Rivers. The impact of the block left Rivers with a broken jaw, and caused him to miss the remainder of the 2008 season. Ward was not penalized for this block, nor was he fined by the league as the hit was deemed legal. The league, however, later passed a new rule banning such hits. The so-called "Hines Ward Rule" made a blindside block illegal if the block came from the blocker's helmet, forearm or shoulder and lands to the head or neck area of a defender.[10] In a Sports Illustrated poll of NFL players in 2009, he was voted the "dirtiest player in the NFL.
#958
2:07 AM Mar 26 2012 2012
Queensryche
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Under the rules at the time the play happened, it was a legal hit. Retroactively calling it a dirty play would be a misrepresentation of the situation. For me, a tactic has to be illegal for it to be dirty. Also like I said, I never saw Hines Ward headhunt or do things like stomp a player on the ground or gouge an eye.

I've heard of other cases of people getting facial injuries during football games. Anquan Boldin also got his jaw shattered with a hit. Hell, my best friend from elementary school had a father who played in the NFL, and during a game he got his orbital bone broken. It isn't common, but to call such injuries "very, very strange" is untrue.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You think he's a dirty player because of the way he blocked. I don't consider him dirty because as far as I'm concerned, he never hit with an intent to injure someone. But hey, these are opinions and we can each think what we want.

I'll just end with something to ponder: if the rules permitted you to use a questionable tactic, wouldn't you use said tactic in an attempt to help your team win?
#959
11:13 AM Mar 27 2012 2012
Riddle McGriddle
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I'd call uncommon injuries very strange. :v There's a reason people wear those helmets, the fact that he delivered a hit so hard that he broke a bone THROUGH THE HELMET is saying a lot. Legal or no, that's dirty to me. Also, regardless of intent, I find blindside blocks to be a bit unclean as well. It really just comes off as the same as sucker punching to me, there's no fighting back if you can't tell it's coming.

That depends. I don't think Ward found something legal. I think he found something that simply wasn't covered at the time and exploited it to his means. It's like finding a loophole within the system that eventually gets shut down once someone discovers it. It wasn't always illegal, it's usually just something that wasn't considered at the time the rules were written. The fact that it later got changed says something to me.

[12:53:28 PM] Volke Aeno: Eklipse likes Magical boys better.
#960
12:36 PM Mar 27 2012 2012
Mood4food77
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yea, but at least he looked to the sideline and called for the medical staff
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