Official Tier list Discussion - old one derailed

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#1
12:36 AM Aug 26 2010 2010
falln
Apathetic
Joined: Aug 2008
falln passed a Tournament Host Certification test.falln doesn't care.falln is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.falln did something funny.falln impressed a staff member by doing something smart.falln has referred new users to the site.falln wrote an exemplary guide.falln wrote a blog entry that was featured on the site!falln helped a member with a problem.falln keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.

Official Tier list Discussion
Online play has no purpose here.

Top

S:

A:



High

B:



Middle

C:

D:



Low

E:

F:

Ganon:

Condensed Version

S: Meta Knight

A: Snake, Diddy Kong, Falco, Wario, Marth, Ice Climbers

B: Olimar, Pikachu, King Dedede, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus

C: Toon Link, Kirby, Fox, R.O.B., Pit, Peach, Donkey Kong

D: Luigi, Wolf, (Zelda/Sheik), Sonic, Ike, Sheik, Ness, Pokémon Trainer

E: Yoshi, Lucas, Mario, Bowser

F: Captain Falcon, Samus, Jigglypuff, Link, Zelda

G: Ganondorf
Last edited by falln, 11:31 PM on Sep 28, 2010
#2
5:20 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Ember Charge
Record Setter
Joined: Apr 2009

Ice climbers will go down Ike will go up, and Falco will go up.

Now back to off-topic, awww, but we had over 1000 pages in the last one.. Itleast put it in a hall of fame.
v By Firebomb, Thank you

Quote (originally posted by Dark Falco):
Airok, you are either retarded or a really really good troll.
#3
5:33 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
falln
Apathetic
Joined: Aug 2008
falln passed a Tournament Host Certification test.falln doesn't care.falln is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.falln did something funny.falln impressed a staff member by doing something smart.falln has referred new users to the site.falln wrote an exemplary guide.falln wrote a blog entry that was featured on the site!falln helped a member with a problem.falln keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.

I think falco has a chance of overtaking snake. Snake doesn't seem to have much going for him as he did a year ago and Falco is still evolving as a character.

also i'd be more proud if the 1000 pages were reached by something that actually mattered instead of "i like pie", which as i recall had a 2 page dedication
#4
5:41 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Ember Charge
Record Setter
Joined: Apr 2009

In terms of the character's potential snake should stay second best. In terms of people playing well with snake and falco, I think Falco will overtake him as well, especially with DEHF beating M2K and everyone at MLG. Diddy might drop to fourth or lower and I can't wait for Ike to be out of low tier. It's been too long but not that I think Ike isn't low tier it's just the performances by Ike at MLG should bring him into middle.

Also, the i like pie discussion was only about 4 or 6 posts and it was ended by me posting that ice cream was better. I'd like it better if the old topic was locked but still able to be read.
v By Firebomb, Thank you

Quote (originally posted by Dark Falco):
Airok, you are either retarded or a really really good troll.
#5
6:04 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
falln
Apathetic
Joined: Aug 2008
falln passed a Tournament Host Certification test.falln doesn't care.falln is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.falln did something funny.falln impressed a staff member by doing something smart.falln has referred new users to the site.falln wrote an exemplary guide.falln wrote a blog entry that was featured on the site!falln helped a member with a problem.falln keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.

I honestly do not think that Snake has as much as potential at this stage. Falco has such an amazing camp game and his grab does a good 60 damage on anyone in the cast. His side b is amazing harassment and gets him away from everything.

Oh, and, tough
#6
6:10 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Ember Charge
Record Setter
Joined: Apr 2009

Quote (originally posted by falln):
I honestly do not think that Snake has as much as potential at this stage. Falco has such an amazing camp game and his grab does a good 60 damage on anyone in the cast. His side b is amazing harassment and gets him away from everything.

Oh, and, tough
His side-b is predictable and low priority, lowest in the game I think. I've even seen an ice climber and ganondorf grab falco out of his phantasm.

Also, meanie.
v By Firebomb, Thank you

Quote (originally posted by Dark Falco):
Airok, you are either retarded or a really really good troll.
#7
6:35 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra
Sage
Joined: Mar 2009
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Falcos cg doesnt do 60% on EVERY character but im pretty sure he can cg each character at least twice before they can get out.
#8
7:31 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
falln
Apathetic
Joined: Aug 2008
falln passed a Tournament Host Certification test.falln doesn't care.falln is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.falln did something funny.falln impressed a staff member by doing something smart.falln has referred new users to the site.falln wrote an exemplary guide.falln wrote a blog entry that was featured on the site!falln helped a member with a problem.falln keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.

Quote (originally posted by Ember Charge):
His side-b is predictable and low priority, lowest in the game I think. I've even seen an ice climber and ganondorf grab falco out of his phantasm.

Also, meanie.



It has transcendant priority, like meta's attacks. Grabs have grab priority which beat all attacks, so grabbing someone out of an attack does not mean the attack has low priority. It means the attack's hit box does not stray from the user's hurtbox.

His side b comes out so incredibly fast that even if you have a move to beat it you cannot use it unless you knew it was coming. Also i'm talking about phantasming back and forth on stage and not to recover.

Quote (originally posted by zebra):
falcos cg dosnt do 60% on EVERY character but im pretty sure he can cg each character at least twice before they can get out.


Almost if not every single character can be chaingrabbed to 30 with only downthrows. Most high tier characters are stuck until 37%. From there falco has a multitude of options and chases he can implement to get a lot more percent.
Larry's gone as far as 0-92% in tourney against ranked players
#9
7:45 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra
Sage
Joined: Mar 2009
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Thats the players fault not what falco can actually do.
Falco is just good at picking up habits and reading people. I agree with side b being a good option when opponents are close because they cant do much to punish it. A few characters can like olimar since he outcamps falco and can just stay in his side b range and punish him. Falco will most likely move past diddy but im not sure about snake. Falco may have won a national tourney but overall snakes tourney results are better than falcos iirc.

But one thing ive noticed about our community is that once a character wins a tourney we overhype them =/.

Just look at ADHD he's mainly the reason diddy moved up when he beat m2k and everyone started meatriding diddy. Now people are learing the matchup and he's not nearly good as he used to be.
#10
9:04 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Player-3
Ladder Pro
Joined: Nov 2008

falco can only get one regrab on lucario at 0
R.I.P Thread
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=43229
#11
9:06 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
bcb
Streaker
Joined: Apr 2009

I'm kinda sad about the thread being removed, it had a lot of history on what players thought in the '08, '09, and early '10 years. Unless I overlooked it, the old one is gone, correct? Or was it locked and a new thread was put up?

As of now, I have a few theories on what will happen. iirc the next list will be sometime in September so this can't be too farfeched.

- Falco will take second on the list and Snake will move down to third.
- Olimar will move to either low A Tier or the top of B Tier. I'm pretty sure he'll be above D3.
- Ice Climbers will either move down one spot, or stay where they are exactly. Wario has a slight chance of overcoming Ice Climbers' spot.
- Wario will move up one or two spots, I'm pretty sure he'll be above Marth in the next list.
- Lucario could move up above Dedede, and there is a chance that he'll go above Pikachu. Not completely sure, and Pikachu may be above D3 as well. ESAM and Lee Martin have shown excellent performance. I have no idea who'll be higher on the list.
- G&W was shown to be mid tier at best, but then UTDZac won a huge tourney, beating amazing players. I'm puzzled where G&W should be on the list, now.
- Pit will go Zero Suit Samus, and probably Toon Link. Possibly Kirby. Pit has shown to be one of the more overhyped characters last list.
- ZSS should head above Toon Link, possibly a spot in B Tier.
- DK, Fox, and maybe Luigi will pass ROB. They've shown to be much more significant than ROB. Especially Fox, who may rise past a few other of our C Tier characters. Perhaps above Toon Link, towards the top of C Tier.
- Ness, Sonic, and Ike will move a few spots upwards deeper into D or E Tier.
- I'm predicting Low Tier to be split into 3 tiers. F Tier is just so huge.
- No idea how bottom tier is going to look, besides Ganon being on last. Link will probably be second to last. Maybe they'll get their own tier or even possibly Ganon would get his own tier.
#12
9:08 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
Darknid
Got Lucky
Joined: Jan 2009
Darknid impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Quote (originally posted by falln):
It has transcendant priority, like meta's attacks. Grabs have grab priority which beat all attacks, so grabbing someone out of an attack does not mean the attack has low priority. It means the attack's hit box does not stray from the user's hurtbox.

His side b comes out so incredibly fast that even if you have a move to beat it you cannot use it unless you knew it was coming. Also i'm talking about phantasming back and forth on stage and not to recover.

Almost if not every single character can be chaingrabbed to 30 with only downthrows. Most high tier characters are stuck until 37%. From there falco has a multitude of options and chases he can implement to get a lot more percent.
Larry's gone as far as 0-92% in tourney against ranked players


By that same token, couldn't you say Snake can get 0-death on any character in the game from one grab because he can tech chase them?
http://www.formspring.me/darknid

#13
9:34 PM Aug 26 2010 2010
falln
Apathetic
Joined: Aug 2008
falln passed a Tournament Host Certification test.falln doesn't care.falln is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.falln did something funny.falln impressed a staff member by doing something smart.falln has referred new users to the site.falln wrote an exemplary guide.falln wrote a blog entry that was featured on the site!falln helped a member with a problem.falln keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.

Quote (originally posted by Darknid):
By that same token, couldn't you say Snake can get 0-death on any character in the game from one grab because he can tech chase them?


He can if he's correct every time. It's not unreasonable to expect 30 damage from his dthrow because he can chase into ftilt or something.

Similarly it's easy for falco to tech chase into dacus or fsmash
#14
2:20 AM Aug 27 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

I am one of the people who believe in Falco's potential of being 2nd. There are 2 good players here where other mains Snake and other mains Falco. Falco seems to be more to be feared for me. That chaingrab easily turns the tide of the match and can cost chars like MK almost the whole stock. And unlike Snake, he isn't a total wuss in air and has a fantastic bair follow up with good dair.

Snake still has his tilts which are avoidable and overrated. If you know the matchup, those nades or mines don't do much and his weight advantage is almost nullified by his recovery that gives him a lot of damage.
#15
6:34 AM Aug 27 2010 2010
Mood4food77
Baller
Joined: Mar 2008
Mood4food77 is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.Mood4food77 did something funny.Mood4food77 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

be happy he even let you guys get to 1000 pages, that thread is the reason why AiB was being laughed at

anyways, luigi moves up to B tier
#16
11:32 AM Aug 27 2010 2010
t3hzZz
People Know Me
Joined: Aug 2010

GO OLI ^o^
#17
1:28 PM Aug 27 2010 2010
Ember Charge
Record Setter
Joined: Apr 2009

I knew falln woul somehow destroy the old topic, I just thought he would do it before the 1000'th page. When I saw this new one and then realized falln created it I lol'd.
v By Firebomb, Thank you

Quote (originally posted by Dark Falco):
Airok, you are either retarded or a really really good troll.
#18
2:34 PM Aug 27 2010 2010
Haruko Haruhara
Staff Slayer
Joined: Jun 2009
Haruko Haruhara did something funny.Haruko Haruhara impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Haruko Haruhara helped a member with a problem.

If this new thread actually bring's worthwhile discussion, then by all means count me in.
#19
2:59 PM Aug 27 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

Count buck in lol.
Seriously thought, let's debate the Snake vs Falco thing for another 1000 pages.
#20
3:08 PM Aug 27 2010 2010
Haruko Haruhara
Staff Slayer
Joined: Jun 2009
Haruko Haruhara did something funny.Haruko Haruhara impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Haruko Haruhara helped a member with a problem.

Snake can approach falco better than others. With the usage of crouch and Powershield.
Not to mention snake has options against lazer-sideb camping(Conjunction of nade+Crouch/PS approaching)Works wonders against falco. Snake destroys falco in close combat. The problem is that snake is so damn easy to grab, that plus he's very susceptible to getting gimped out of a cg. He cannot rely on his normal camp game because lazers>>>every camper in the game(Except arguably olimar).

50-50
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