Let's not forget Ganondorf, man, his Side+B suicides were really ruining the game. Oh wait, he has a negative matchup versus every character even with it...

You're just recentering the game on an even smaller number of characters, and beyond that, you're centering it on the ones that are already godlike. "Oh, hey, we included 35 ledge grabs for MK, so we're working hard to make him less of a threat." 35 isn't a small number, and with this stagelist, ****, he's got the easiest counterpicking options available. Strike one, and hey, either Brinstar or RC's open.

I don't get it. Any new Smash player could point out the flaws in this at a quick glance, so why are longstanding vets of the community doing stupid **** like this?

Pictochat alone takes all respect out of this....it's clearly not a stage to decide competitions with it's random rewards everywhere the entire match

Behold, AlphaZealot! The reaction I said would occur with the general populace has occurred! Very few favor the "forcing" of the rules and the rules are incredibly unpopular in general.

Oh, and guess what? With the exception of Brinstar and RC being on the same stage list every time, NY/NJ has been running rules WITHOUT the issues people are complaining about (Bowser/Ganon suicide rule, PICTOSHAT AND PS2, Dedede infinites) in here. NJ got it right in 2008.

Go for a unified rule-set if you want to. But, for the good of the people, don't throw some half-arsed attempt at us as something official. You're missing too many hosts and made clear, undeniable errors (PICTOCHAT) that it is WRONG to force upon us all.

Once? It's happened a lot more than once. Obviously it's still going to be in MKs favor, but it's not like diddy vs mk on RC isn't unbeatable. I'm considered to be a top level diddy (not a top player, just a top a top diddy) and I'm ranked in my state and RC is personally my favorite stage to play on and I feel very comfortable on that stage versing any character whatsoever, I'd much rather play that stage than lylat and frigate for my character. Do I think the stage is better? No, I just know the stage VERY well and know how to play on it correctly. We saw Gnes win on brinstar and norfair numerous times at MLG Dallas against top players such as tyrant, espy, and such. Learn one stage ban the other, MK doesn't become unbeatable just because he wins game 1 or even close to it, sure it's an uphill battle and perhaps it's a steeper slope than it is on other stages, but you can definitely still win with a good shot if you play it correctly.


@inui-You can insult me all you want or whatever, but I personally think pictochat is fine, although it's definitely borderline fine just like I think PS2 is borderline not fine, but I do agree with you whole-heartedly that being "forced" and for them to discourage any other tournament ruleset is completely dumb.

I like this

PATHETIC.

I thought rule sets/stage lists were supposed to evolve and get better, not stay the same because 'well they've always been that way, derp.' Direct quote of AZ in this thread btw.

Seriously, after all this time what are rainbow cruise/brinstar still doing together on a cp list. 'it's always been that way' is such falty logic, go to college please. There's a reason luigi's mansion/skyworld didn't make it past 2008. I like Picto but it does seem to decide games due to random hazards too often.

Seems like this is pretty universally hated :/. I'm not sure why, for many of the rules, they insisted on going directly against the popular standards. If those standards haven't yielded any serious problems thus far, then why change what the broad base of the community enjoys?

No reasonable, intelligent person thinks Pictochat is good.

Not insulting you, Player-1. Stating a fact. It's simply not competitively viable whatsoever. Luck can and does, very frequently I might add, decide who wins. That's anti-competitive.

picto should be banned.

proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcZwc8g5KcU&feature=feedu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr3oDfzunvI

This stuff has been known since the game came out.

Again, I ask, why was this stage ever legal and why do people persist in saying it is competitively viable?

I'm with Inui, someone support Pictochat please because I'm not seeing how luck and excessive randomness is good to keep to our competitive scene

Yeah I know you weren't insulting me in any previous post, but I was just saying that you can go ahead and do it if you wanted to for your response to that post, because I see you get worked up over that stage lots :3. I don't think it's good per say, I think it's borderline viable, I don't want to get in a discussion over it here, but I mean I can obviously see why people say it should be banned and stuff and wouldn't care if it were banned at all, it's just on that tipping point for me, it could go either way.

The above post was made after this one:



Again, I say: "No reasonable, intelligent person thinks Pictochat is good."

The problem with arguing against luck is that most stages can be argued to have a luck factor.

I've lost a match because of the Shy Guys on Yoshi's Island, and the platform.
I've lost matches because of Lylat's stage tilting.
I've won/lost matches on PS1/Delfino/Castle Seige because I or my opponent has fallen through the stage.
I've won/lost matches because of the claw/laser/bomb on Halberd
I've lost matches because of Frigate flipping.

There's many more but hopefully you all get the point. To have a truly fair stage list, it'd have to look like this:

Starter: Battlefield/Final Destination
Counterpick: Nothing

Those are the only two stages where NOTHING interferes with the gameplay, and even then, matchup discrepancies on FD are so ridiculous that even that isn't fair, so....Battlefield.

Also this ruleset sucks.

"4. Intentional forfeiting, match fixing, splitting, and any other forms of bracket manipulation is not allowed and punishable by the TO. "

awww ****

yo I'm sticking with wifi

these rules are ***

So Inui, if Pictochat is off the next update, what will you have to complain about next? Is PS2 next on the list for you?



Not luck, you see them before they are in your face. If you run into an fsmash that gets extended hitboxes due to a shyguy hovering right there, that's your fault. The platforms, yea they're luck.



Not luck in the slightest.



Lucky glitch.



Easily not luck. Not all hazards are immediately luck. You have ridiculous amounts of time to react to all of those hazards



Not luck. About 5 second sound & visual warning before a flip.

I don't quite get what you were aiming at with this post, but hazards that don't happen instantaneously aren't luck based.

Yup.  They both should go, but Pictochat is the clear greater of the two evils.

When is this "next update" anyways?  How long is a stage with, uh, one supporter in this thread so far going to be forced on people?

I was just saying that most stages are bad in Brawl.

Also that the ruleset is ***.

Gross stages. How can PS2, something which becomes literally unplayable for at least 3 of it's transformations (Ican't think of the 4th because why would I ever play there?). Also RC/Brinstar......pick one or the other.