NC passes bill to ban civil union

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#41
3:22 AM May 17 2012 2012
Tybalt Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2009
Tybalt Maxwell did something funny.Tybalt Maxwell impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Tybalt Maxwell helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.Tybalt Maxwell is actually a guy pretending to be a girl.

Quote (originally posted by Kief):
Tybalt, please don't take this personally or in an offensive way here, but you're not doing a good job of reading carefully what I say. I never said homosexuality is a choice, nor have I defended any position in the gay marriage debate here. All I've said is the same thing you just did: that people who make claims in a debate have a burden of proof. That's all I've tried to add to this discussion (save for the comment on whether Christians are consistent).


I was just explaining the concept of burden of proof, not accusing you of taking a stance

If the way I have worded it implies otherwise, then I apologize

Randy is impregnated by Tyrone in our Movie, BOYS WILL BE BOYS...
#42
5:03 AM May 17 2012 2012
Rizen
Joined: Sep 2009
Rizen has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.Rizen impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Rizen helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

Quote (originally posted by Kief):
Rizen, all of your boldface quotes are assertions that denying homosexuals the right to marry is discrimination, presupposing that homosexual actions are not immoral choices that remove a person's rights. You haven't given a reason why we should think this. Murderers and thieves have their freedoms removed because of their actions despite having innate human rights. Why isn't homosexuality something that does this as well?

It's not assertions if you treat all people equally.  For persons 1 and 2 to have marriage rights but persons 3 and 4 to be denied them is discrimination.  I said morals don't even come into the matter as a legal case.  And morals don't remove peoples rights; that's a large part of why separation of Church and state is so important.  The reason is all people are suppose to be equal and not separated by preferences, beliefs or traits.  The reason you can't see the reasons a lot of people including myself are saying is because you separate homosexual people because their sexual preference.

If a gay person didn't kill or steal they have committed no actions to have their rights be taken because sexual preference is not a crime.  Being gay is not illegal; to deny their equality and rights is discrimination.  The same way denying any innocent person equality and rights is discrimination.

Frankly, comparing being homosexual to murdering and/or stealing is somewhat insulting and I'm not even gay. 
Gays are people and entitled to the same rights as all other people.  Denying gay marriage is placing them on an inferior level to heterosexuals.  Like denying women's right to vote, people of darker skin the right to attend schools or sit in the same section of a bus with Caucasians, etc.
There's no moral opinions that can convict people of wrong doing in a legal or human rights sense (in a not corrupted system :/ ).  Regardless of moral views, religious teachings or the fact, I largely feel is unacknowledged, that people feel creeped-out by sexuality different than their own, it's not illegal to be gay. 
People who have committed no crime except in the highly subjective area of moral views deserve to not be separated, like many other prejudices have done to people all throughout history I'll add.  They deserve and are entitled to equal treatment and rights, legally and by human rights.

/If anybody’s buying, nobody’s hero.
#43
5:55 PM May 17 2012 2012
Eki
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Eki did something funny.Eki impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Eki helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

Quote (originally posted by Kief):
Eki seemed to provide the closest thing to an argument when he mentioned that homosexuals are sometimes suicidal. But he was saying that they felt this way because their circumstances wouldn't let them act out their homosexual preferences, not because they were homosexuals. You'd have to make the latter claim to have an argument, but that would make one.
Huh? Why would the latter claim make this an argument? My main point wasn't really to 'prove' homosexuality was a choice (although it kind of does), it was to show some of the effects homophobia has. Claiming homosexuals have an innate higher suicide rate isn't an argument, it's just... wrong. Homosexuality is, in most parts of the US (and the world, for that matter), looked down upon, seen as something disgusting. This causes stress, low self esteem, and all other kinds of bad psychological issues for individuals. THAT'S the cause of the higher suicide rates, NOT the fact that they find their own gender sexier.

Society's treatment of homosexuals is actually behind most 'arguments' anti-gay activists have, I'm pretty sure.
kolasås ㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛㋛
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