"Peach, Bowser, DK, Diddy, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Zelda, Toon Link, Zamus, Pit, R.O.B, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Pikachu, Charizard, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Snake, and Sonic."

Ok, so you counterpick a character vs the Planker. Planker now counterpicks the stage. Let's go with FD or PS1, and make the planker Meta. Meta's Uair goes through that edge, and he can hide below it to protect himself against even further as he attacks, which gets in the way of many of the strategies to counter it.

Peach: Turnips arn't going to help as he's hiding down there - best bet is to drop off and hope you don't get gimped by his quicker aerials.
Bowser: Fire Breath? That edge will protect Meta unless you're standing right up to it aiming straight down, and at that point you're wide open to a Uair through the stage.
DK: Ground pound still works, but odds are that you'll be in range of his Uair before you get close enough to start it (have to start on the ground), so you'll get hit.
Diddy: Peanuts and nanners arn't going to reach - you've got to drop off and risk getting gimped like everyone else.
Yoshi: Egg explosion might reach - depends on if it's FD or PS1. Either way, you're probably ok. Here's one that's fine.
Wario: Bike/Tires... nope, they don't go through the stage. You could use the bike to force a defensive manuver from Meta (his attacks out-prioritize the bike to the point where he can't bounce it with his attacks, so he has to dodge or take a hit) and then try to hit him in his lag, but it's still a risk. I'll give Wario this one because I think you could do it rather safely if you use the bike and tires in conjunction and have a waft just in case - you're going to build one up as he's stalling anyway.
Link: Bombs might have enough range on the explosion to reach through the platform. Otherwise, any attempt is pretty much suicide.
Zelda: Din's Fire. You're good. : )
Toon Link: Bombs AND the boomerang (return hit could be used to build damage safely). I'll give him this one.
Zamus: Well... you could use the suit pieces at the start of the match, but they can only really do so much to help you land a hit, and if it doesn't work, you get gimped. After that, you've got nothing.
Pit: Arrows. You're fine.
ROB: Lazah bounces off the ledge, and the gyro wont go through it. Possible Dair through the platform, but it's slow as hell and Uair will beat you in speed.
Kirby: Stone wont go through the edge, and you put yourself into edgeguard/gimp position if you try, so it's about the same as Meta vs Meta, except without the range/priority. Better than some of the characters, but not by much.
Meta: He has a positional advantage, you all know this. Not much reason to argue this here. I'll say you can deal with it.
Dedede: Waddle Dees/Doos and Gordos wont go through the platforms, but Dair could. I'll give him this.
Pikachu: Wall hugging projectile. You can handle it.
Charizard: Flamethrower problem is same as Bowser, and Rock Smash wont go through the platform either.
Ness: You can handle the planking, but realistically, you're better off letting him plank the whole match and trying to land a PKT in the last 15 seconds than aggitate him into gimping you normally.
Lucas: A little better than Ness, but not by much. You have Dair through the platform too if I'm not mistaken, and a well placed Bair might connect the spike hitbox. I'll give him this one.
G&W: Jump off and invincible upB? You risk getting gimped the same as everyone else. The sausages! THEY DO NOTHING!
Snake: Nades/Nikita/C4/Mortar. You're fine.
Sonic: Spring wont go through the stage.


I've got about 10 that I think should work, and like 2 to 3 more that might pull it off. Only like 3 that can do it relatively safely out of all of them.

That kinda sucks.

As for Bowser and DK, they can both air dodge past the planker and immediately up B. Their up Bs cannot be edge hogged and will stage spike if they hit him at the beginning of the attack, and also have invincibility.

Also, Zamus has D smash. That's about it though.

Oh goody, quote dissection.



I'm so sorry, how very rude of me. I think i was supposed to CAPS LOCK AND BOLD. I apologize for my mistake.



Okay, if we're being literal, you character can move. They just can't do anything about their situation. Happy?



Hell dude, you asked for this one when you said that the IC infinite stalls more than planking.



That's just a retarded matchup, not a tactic used to run down the timer. Should we ban every single move that a character can use to have an advantage? Should Dedede's back air be banned because it breaks through snake's cypher? No, that would be silly.




Meh... someone already beat me to this, but i'm going to have my say anyway. First thing that needs to be realized is that Metaknight does NOT just jump back and forth. When the opponent comes close he either nados, fairs, nairs, or uairs, and he is competent in avoiding some projectiles.
Peach: Her turnips won't do anything useful, and peach going down there is asking for a uair. She's got nothing.
Bowser: He can't do anything. His fire breath doesn't actually hug the stage (a common misconception).
Donkey Kong: He has nothing either. The last thing Donkey Kong wants to do is jump off stage and get gimped with his horrible recovery. His ground pound doesn't help him out.
Yoshi: LOL YOSHI. His eggs aren't that good. He'd have to use them at point blank to get them to fall down enough, and by then he's in hitting distance.ot har
Diddy: Diddy has nothing. His peanuts won't hurt mk (and are easily broken with up air), and it's not hard at all for meta to dodge the occasional banana that will fall (an example would be using dimensional cape straight on to the edge).
Wario: Same reasoning as diddy.
Link: After a while, the bombs may annoy meta enough to get up, so I guess this one's legit (timed arrows might help too)
Zelda: Din's fire works
Tlink: See Link
Zero Suit Samus: I've talked with WarpStatus about this. Zss has nothing save for her very first pieces; which are easily disposed.
Pit: Arrows work
Rob: The only thing Rob really has is his gyro. It takes precise aim, a slightly charged gyro, and will be so easy to read a meta could easily dodge it.
Kirby, Meta: They're multiple jumps may save them if they go down, but they'll be hit first by the meta. Meta's upair comes out before his own down air, and Meta just needs to dodge kirby's bair for a quick Nair. I mean they COULD theoretically stop meta, but the planker is at such a situational advantage it's not going to realistically work. Also, a metaknight who would seriously get hit by kirby's stone in that situation is a bad meta.
Dedede: A well timed dair should do the trick. Dedede can stop it.
Pikachu: Thunder Jolt works
Charizard: See bowser. Also remember that after a certain amount of planking, Charizard becomes weak as hell
Ness, Lucas: PKT works
Game and watch: Meta's get up attack beats Gnw's dtilt, so that won't work. Gnw's bair might work. Meh, he has enough options so i'll give it to him.
Snake: Snake supposedly isn't plankable, but I've seen it happen. As long as the meta is smart enough to avoid nades he's good. However, it makes snake the agressor and Meta at a disadvantage, so Snake stops it.
Sonic: because an easy to read spring will seriously do anything.... and doing bair off of stage is risky business. Sonic can't really do much.

In total you have Link, Tlink, Pit, Dedede, PIkachu, Ness, Lucas, GnW, and Snake. That's 9 characters out of the 37 (including zss and sheik), which is a bit less than 1/4 who can stop it. It's also worth noting that Ness, Lucas, Link, and Tlink are almost never used in tournaments, but that's beside the point. Also note that you're never going to see a samus/zero suit transformation at tournaments; it gives too much time for meta to get a free hit.




I'm not Terios, but the fact that the homing stall is still being considered is really sad. All you need to do is double jump and Sonic's Homing Attack won't register, causing him to suicide. If your character doesn't have a good enough double jump, you can just use a nearby platform (and FD's stage size is large enough for pretty  much any double jump + up special to work).

Strike FD (and PS1 if it's a neutral), then ban either PS1 or FD as a counterpick. Not a big issue as long as you win the first match. I was basing everything on SV.

Meta has to go back to the ledge once he goes off; use this to your advantage if you can manipulate your projectiles.

Zamus' Dsmash goes through the edge. If they are planking on PS1, the Dsmash will hit them. FD, I'm not too sure.

G&W's D-air goes through the edge, and hits them on PS1. Not sure about FD.

i think gdubs dair hits through FD
ZSS' definitely doesn't

Fiction won the first game of this set. Than he went MK, DSF stayed snake and DSF won. They swtich chars and DSF CP's away. He starts to plank, Wario has nothing to do, it costs him the match, and a spot in BIO 2's grand finals. LITERALLY as soon as he got a hit he planked. Convinced its that bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-kmLXBWsVo

yup
pretty much anything goes through PS1, both uairs and stall-then-fall dairs.
but not all chars have the tools.
*cough* falco*cough*

"Strike FD (and PS1 if it's a neutral), then ban either PS1 or FD as a counterpick. Not a big issue as long as you win the first match. I was basing everything on SV.

Meta has to go back to the ledge once he goes off; use this to your advantage if you can manipulate your projectiles."

There's also the edge on Lylat Cruise... does Meta's Uair reach through it? If not, I'm sure Marth can reach through it.

So, we can go through the list of characters and see how they handle themselves against Marth's planking. Maybe Marth will counter some of the counters to Meta's planking?

"As for Bowser and DK, they can both air dodge past the planker and immediately up B. Their up Bs cannot be edge hogged and will stage spike if they hit him at the beginning of the attack, and also have invincibility."

That's great! Except that Meta could see the airdodge coming, go back onto the stage as they airdodge off, and run to the other edge as they recover. : (
Like, it helps, but damn is it going to be a pain.
Actually, does Bowser's Dair still have uber range like in Melee? Sometimes I'd use the shockwave on it, along with the duration, to edgeguard (if I wasn't in position to Bair properly). If he still has that range I guess he'd be fine.

Other stages... if Luigi's Mansion is allowed, those edges would work too. Shark attack on Halberd? Reach through Brinstar?


*Edit*

iction won the first game of this set. Than he went MK, DSF stayed snake and DSF won. They swtich chars and DSF CP's away. He starts to plank, Wario has nothing to do, it costs him the match, and a spot in BIO 2's grand finals. LITERALLY as soon as he got a hit he planked. Convinced its that bad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-kmLXBWsVo"


Fiction... USE THE FORCE BIKE!!!  -_-;
That's what it's there for damnit...

Drop down with an air dodge and up B. Invincibility + beats MK's stuff + stage spikes + can't be edgehogged. Worst case scenario, the MK gets back on stage and retreats to the other ledge as bobman said.



First off, DK's recovery is one of the best in the game. Don't be a fool, now. Second, DK can drop down with an air dodge and up B immediately after, same as Bowser. He can also F smash. It always has a chance to hit MK right before he regrabs the ledge.



Snake can cause a string of explosions that outlasts invincibility. Over time, Snake will rack up too much damage and even kill.

Pretty sure Lucario's Dtilt goes through stages too.

DK does not have one of the best recoveries in the game, it just seems that good cause he's fat, same with bowser

DK and bowser cna do nothing to a planking meta except get lucky

falln, eggs work. You don't need to be near the edge for you to aim them down. It can be at any distance. He can also edge-hog via Yoshi Bomb (Bowser can do this, too), but it's risky.

Yeah? You judge a recovery by the whole package, not by their up B. If you did, Jiggz would have the worst recovery in the game. If you judge a recovery by rate of success, DK's is definitely one of the best.

@Darknid: It is NOT hard to predict an airdodge. Mk predicts it + dair = your dk/bowser just died. Their recovery does suck. They can't recover from spiking, and smart placing works through their priority. Metaknight can literally keep dairing them, letting them recover with up b, then dair, rinse repeat. I watched it happen to M7H at scsa 4 lol.
I already said Snake can stop planking, but the "string of explosions" is easy as hell to predict. It's kinda obvious where the explosions will take place.

@Poltergust: Eggs may REACH, but they don't work. Just because a move gets close to mk doesn't mean it stops planking. The mk was just doing it wrong. The Mk can avoid the egg, grab the edge, and still have time to avoid the next edge. And if the meta grabs the edge just before yoshi or bowser, they suicide. Not worth the risk imo

Okay, planking is definitely cheap; very cheap if one uses it properly. Get one stock off them and then plank. They must approach because if time runs out they loose. How the hell do you approach a planking meta!?!?! Meta's aerials own on the edge and his up b rapes. The only real anti plank is zelda's side b. Yes u can drop grenades and stuff but a decent planker can easily avoid it. If you wanna experience planking, just message me and I'll show you how annoying it can be.

As long as you keep on spamming eggs they eventually WILL hit Meta Knight. I've managed to do it before on several planking characters, including Meta Knight. They can't possibly dodge every single one. If Yoshi apparently can't hit Meta Knight with his eggs, why can Zelda hit with Din's Fire? Or Pit with his arrows? Yoshi simply doesn't get effectively planked since he'll always be in a safe position while still being able to damage Meta Knight.

Also, like I said, Yoshi Bomb is risky but effective since if it is successful he can follow-up with a rising n-air while still in his invincibility frames.

@Polt: If Meta can dodge the first egg, he can dodge all of them. It's not like each egg is harder than the one before it
Zelda's fully charged din's fire has a retarded hitbox, and can pretty much encompass most of mk's planking area (not quite sure how effective it is on fd but it annihilates on sv and bf, which is where zelda's like to go anyway).
Personally, I think pit looping his arrow is bull, but if you say it is, then they spazz out, and it really doesn't make a difference in the argument whether or not pit can hit with them or not, so i just don't bother. The fact remains 3/4 of the cast can't beat it. That should be more than enough to ban (or at least ledge grab limit) planking.

falln, the explosion radius for Egg Toss is bigger then you'd think. It also lasts a while. And Yoshi is able to throw one about every second. Do you really believe that it's possible to dodge all of them for 8 minutes?

MK predicts it + dair = his dair loses to your invincibility and he gets stage spiked. Or he dairs you, and you still have your 2nd jump so you can make it back pretty easily. Either way MK is forced off of t he edge. Spiking has nothing to do with this(even though they both can recover from spiking due to massive weight and DK's high jump).

Also, MK cannot keep dairing because you can DI too high for it to work several times.

While his string of explosives may be obvious..what's MK gonna do about it? stop grabbing that ledge or get blown up. Either way, you've gotten him off of the ledge.

@Polt: Pretty much all the egg toss has going for it is it's wtf factor. Once Mk realizes it's full range, there isn't much yoshi can do. And yes, if the mk tries, he could avoid the eggs. He'd only have to avoid about 30 seconds worth before the yoshi realizes that he has to try something else.
@Darknid: I'm starting to think you have no idea what you're talking about. Airdodging has LAG at the end of it, which is easily punished by dair. You didn't "force" mk into anything besides putting yourself in a situation where you're going to die. You may have gotten him off the edge, but it'll cost you a stock. You really think that's worth it? And if you even knew how Mk's dair / how DI works, you'd realize that you won't gain vertical coverage from attempting to DI his Dair. Idk why you're still arguing about snake, everyone already agrees that he stops planking >_>