Official Tier list Discussion - old one derailed

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#901
6:49 PM Dec 11 2010 2010
SMASHKNG
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Jul 2009

SL is sure pretty hard to punish, not the Glide Attack if you time right though. I think aerials OoS work best for punishing it.

Quote (originally posted by Darknid):
You can't punish SL when it's blocked? surely every character(except Ganon) has a move that's capable of it. Snake utilt for instance.

Yoshi?
#902
6:57 PM Dec 11 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

SL isn't going to be used against a shield duh!
A few dtilts and SL pokes anyways.
And you do it OoS, when the opponent cannot shield it.

Oh and it's kinda like Marth's, only infinitely better.
#903
7:24 PM Dec 11 2010 2010
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra
Sage
Joined: Mar 2009
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Yeah mk can just land outside of grab range and dtilt iirc lol. It's a pretty hard move to stop in the hands of someone who knows how to use it.
#904
10:12 PM Dec 11 2010 2010
Phil Nye the SCIENCE Guy
Tons of Damage
Joined: May 2008
Phil Nye the SCIENCE Guy is a troll. Please ignore anything said by this user.
"Troll"

SL is pretty legit when used correctly.

Too bad even good MKs have a hella habit for using this move as a "panic button", imo if they used it more like Marth's oos where they ONLY used it for a read (like doing a quick SH SL to a whiffed aerial) or only used it when the opponent touched their shield with a misspaced move, then this move would be pretty hard.

Also I don't know about you guys and your opinion of Ganon, but this set is HILARIOUS, especially the second match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laRwODwOaZ0

also @ LzR: I would say that by the way you mentioned MK to use SL, Marth's would become "unpunishable" when used properly oos too, not to mention Marth's has more horizontal range and killpower (not by a lot, but you see some solid kill potential between 120-130%).  Does that mean that MK's is only marginally better because it has a little more leeway if you whiff?[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laRwODwOaZ0][/url]
#905
11:31 PM Dec 11 2010 2010
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra
Sage
Joined: Mar 2009
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

ifs are for smiths
#906
2:58 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
Psychoace
War is Over
Joined: Apr 2009

A metaknight won't punish with SL most of the time on stage, they'll dair you because you can't grab them even if they do shield it, and it has a chance to trip you. SL will normally be used for gimping most of the time. If you do use it as a punish ground SL has invincibility frames. If you are playing on platforms you can just cancel it into tornado or something and get away. It's also not like your guaranteed to get punished if you miss the first part of shuttle loop anyway, you can either glide away from your opponent to the edge or cancel it so you don't glide.

I'm honestly surprised this debate is even taking place lol.
#907
4:10 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
KMF
Spread the Love
Joined: Jun 2010

I think SL is pretty nice move, that is able kill at pretty low percents for an up-b move.
#908
5:02 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

It is the best move in the game duh.
Frame 8, can gimp at like 0%, is 100% safe when used correctly and has invincibility frames on the ground. And it also is one of the craziest recoverymoves in the game.

Too bad it has sad priority to balance it all out, but it so fast it's not a problem.
#909
5:24 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
SMASHKNG
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Jul 2009

Quote (originally posted by -LzR-):
It is the best move in the game duh.
Frame 8, can gimp at like 0%, is 100% safe when used correctly and has invincibility frames on the ground. And it also is one of the craziest recoverymoves in the game.

Too bad it has sad priority to balance it all out, but it so fast it's not a problem.


The priority at the start isn't bad when it's trascended and when it has invincibility when the hitbox comes out on the grounded, that means that it beats almost anything at the start on the grounded version.
#910
5:32 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

After the invincibility is out, the move just has crappy priority, I think it loses to kinda everything.
The aerial version doesn't even have invincibility so you just gotta abuse the speed and hitbox of it.
#911
6:17 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
False GanonBuck
Staff Slayer
Joined: Jun 2009
False GanonBuck did something funny.False GanonBuck impressed a staff member by doing something smart.False GanonBuck helped a member with a problem.

Mks SL won't hit high ranged horizontal moves as an OOS. And SL when blocked can be punished with an aerial, or even a good grab(i have done it before). Thats why mks need to learn when to use it.
#912
6:26 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
SMASHKNG
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Jul 2009

Although MK doesn't only have Up b OoS. His shield grab is pretty good and he has like Ftilt OoS, aerials OoS (his jump is 5 frames fast) and dash grab OoS, some of this WILL punish long ranged moves. MK's has other great OoS options than just Up b.
#913
6:27 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

So because bad players use it means it sucks?

SL correctly used is almost broken and unpunishable.
#914
10:01 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
Darknid
Got Lucky
Joined: Jan 2009
Darknid impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Quote (originally posted by -LzR-):
So because bad players use it means it sucks?

SL correctly used is almost broken and unpunishable.


You could say that about any good OOS move. Look at dolphin slash or fortress. If you only use it when it's sure to hit then obv it's not punishable. Saying it's the best move in the game? Not sure about that. I'd say moves that put a character several tiers higher like Diddy's naners or Falco's lasers are much better.
http://www.formspring.me/darknid

#915
10:16 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
SMASHKNG
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Jul 2009

I think SL is the best move not only for its invincibility but because aerial version kills really early at close distances combined with semi-spiking properties with a speed faster than human reaction, being a GTFO move and also killing decently early on grounded. It also makes MK glide before being put in the helpless status and when recovering it makes MK extremely risky to edge guard.
#916
10:26 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra
Sage
Joined: Mar 2009
Eternal Mangekyo Zebra impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

It's pretty easy to see coming though. Unless your a character with a bad recovery you shouldn't be gettting gimped with it that much.
#917
10:29 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
SMASHKNG
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Jul 2009

It's easy to see it coming but it can and WILL hit you at times if you're playing a smart MK. It can punish you for momentum canceling in a bad position or bait air dodges to still hit you with SL or his aerials.
#918
11:16 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
-LzR-
Host
Joined: Dec 2009

Well listen to MK mains, they will say it's the best move in the game. Well, Nanners maybe be better, but let's get tricky and say they are not because Diddy's downB doesn't do anything but spawn a nanner so it's not so good.

Ho
#919
11:51 AM Dec 12 2010 2010
Player-3
Ladder Pro
Joined: Nov 2008

marths side b is the best move in the game.
#920
12:05 PM Dec 12 2010 2010
xzx
Picture Perfect
Joined: Aug 2009
xzx won a Screenshot of the Week Contest!xzx contributed to the Stadium community.

Quote (originally posted by -LzR-):
SL is the best OoS move in the game. It's one of the best gimpers in the game.
xzx: Any move can kill a moron before 100% if they have bad DI. Show me some with good DI.
I thought you knew better. You're a MK main after all. I know more about MK than you, lol. SL actually gives that knockback, you can't DI upwards. It gives that gay knockback. Have you ever got hit by that? In that case, the Wario couldn't DI, because it gives that kind of knockback. Facepalm at you, -LzR-.
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