our jab beats wegees jab guys dont be afraid to spam that once your in a pickle
soo 55/45 wegee seems to be the avg. I do have plenty of wegee experience so i guess thats why i find it even.... but i guess wegee has an easier time killing and stages tend to help him out since most of his moves are vertical killing like sheik. But his kill much earlier >_<
ike is pretty obvious 60/40- tilt like sheik love to do and your good
Shelda id tend to stick with 55/45 due to reasons discussed earlier
Also welcome to the board dcold

Weegee: This is either even or slightly in our favor.......(+1 imo [55-45]....or even). I don't understand why you guys think he's got us! If we play with the intention to run away, he cannot get in on us. Also, we just have to play safe and punish his few openings. Once you punish, reset the spacing, run away, throw needles, and don't push any advantages because he has dumb moves altogether. Just play safe and it solves all your problems.

Ike: This is hard......It's either +1 or even. His jab's damage output is absurd and because of our weight properties, we get really messed up by it. If we aren't powershielding his aerials, he can outspace us very effectively. We can rack a lot of damage with Ftilt yes, but we likely cannot kill with it alone. At this point, he really is hard to kill. As far as gimping, we have to take our chances but not be foolhardy with it because Ike can reverse aether and mess us up. Honestly, we have to be very careful because of our lack of weight and bad character traits. VERY CAREFUL!

Shielda: Optimally, this MU will be a +1 for Sheilda because she can kill with Sheik's tilt lock and she can either remain Sheik to try and push the lead, or become Zelda who is a little more dangerous with a lead. This is tough and definitely for Sheilda.

Dcoid! It's been a long time since I've seen ya post on either SWF or AiB. Glad to have ya back man, how've ya been?

I've been good thanks :3 Quit Brawl for like a year and a half, getting back into it now, things seem interesting again ;D

Weegee can chase us trying to run away with that annoying down B, even if guarded he can still sort of escape harm's way, making him a slippery kid to catch

Ike is forced to approach us, just sit back and needle if you're at high percent, if he comes close, punish up close and try and knock him off stage, rinse repeat. Low % you can really just stay in his face, good shielding saves us here. Nonetheless don't get over excited and get gimped by that aether, tricky to kill, but easier to rack up damage on definitely.

Certainly, it's definitely easier to rack damage but gimps aside, we aren't killing him outright for a while.

With Weegee, his downB is awful, because when he does it, he'll likely make it so it rises a bit and then he can throw an aerial or AD. It's a very simple mixup that we can punish the hell out of. Like, we just have to make it a point not to fight Luigi up close because that's when you lose. Just get in, get out, rinse & repeat. All Luigi is, is a test of your patience.

Yeah, I can totally see me doing the MU wrong, Luigi seems very counter-intuitive (then again, 90% of the cast benefits from playing campy against Luigi), esp. w/ how aggro I like to be w/ pressuring shields and whatnot. I think it's still possible as favorable, but you'd have to play very differently than your usual Sheik 101.

A fun thing about Ike v. Lucario that I'm wondering if it works for sheik too: On FD and Yoshi's Island, the way the lip is structured, Ike pops up a little bit before grabbing the ledge, with aura sphere, lucario can nab him out of it every time for free damage (and it pretty much allows you to reset him back to recovering, allowing you to charge and repeat lol), I'm wondering if the same can be applied to needles for free damage, if you don't feel like risking for a gimp.

Yes about the needles. Useful!

Yeah that needle thing works, and on YI when Ike uses Aether he pops onto the stage if he does it too high (since the stage is tilted, same with Lylat I believe), if he waits too long then we can possibly grab the ledge and pop him up when he gets back on stage and repeat.

sweet you guys are getting the jist of the wegee mu!
Yea its a toughie thats for sure, but only if we play it like any other MU. Hes like diddy in a sense where you cant get to close and you have to punish his openings which are predictable (more so than diddy of course lol) Although i would say the mu is definitly playable i would have to stick with 55/45 wegee. Only because of his killing power being ridiculousy better than ours, not to mention its mostly vertical knockback for him which is sheiks main killing route. So he kills us much earlier than we kill him on any stage we cp him to really. Also he does have some down b gimmicks. But keep in mind our jab rapes his so if he gets close and your stuck on the ground jab like a boss! Even if he sheilds it pushes him away thanks to his natural properties

Ike is a fairly simple mu imo. Again i have a good ike in my region sooo yea... lol but sheik rapes him so yay for mu practice. The ftilit lock gets alot of damage on him which essentialy favors us in this mu. Other than that our lack of killing power yet our much better spacing oppertunities balance it out for us. Even the ike boards tend to agree the mu is 60/40 for sheik.

Shelda is like a half ditto but shelda has better ko power, but knowing this sheik can take it to her advantage which agrees to the +1 ratio of 55/45 shelda

Just a suggestion, I remember on the SWF/SB Sheik Boards we would also put stages to use for CounterPicks vs the character we're discussing, like for Luigi what to CP etc. It really helps, lets us know more and how to use the stage to our advantage, since I see we've not done that much (or at all, but can't say that since I haven't read every post). Like personally I don't know what stage we could use against Luigi. However for Ike we could CP some stages where he's forced to recover awkwardly, like on Frigate, which is naturally a good stage for Sheik but the right side of the stage leaves Ike with only 2 ways to recover, which both are easily punishable. Yoshi's Island is also another option since the edges make aether land on stage instead of locking to the side. Just NEVER go on the platform near him since he can kill us very easy and makes us susceptible to his up tilt and like all of his smashes lol.

Any ideas for Shelda and Luigi would be appreciated. Discussing stages really helps, fits with the topic too.

Whoa, when did this place get active again?

when i got here ^ lol just kidding
Also dcold i put cp recommendations in the first post if you have any questions for specific ones feel free to ask me =)
I will also be putting a what to ban list at some points

Alrightyy next MUs Pit and Sonic!!!
My starting ratioss are... (drumroll)
Pit- 55/45 sheik
Sonic- 55/45 sheik

I meant like in our posts, because it gets more people's opinions in it rather than whatever you're just putting, not going against it, but it is a discussion so the more the merrier.

Pit - Solid 55-45 / 60-40 needles used correctly combined with our speed pressure him, and his recovery. Really not the toughest of MUs, sort of like it, if you get in his face he can't sit back with arrows so yeah pretty much it.

Ban- Rainbow Cruise imo, he can just go around everywhere here, and we can't get in, and when we try to "recover" he can just punish everything...

CP- I'd probably pick Battlefield, it's simple, we can use the platforms well, if he goes on it our uptilt punishes him, and so do needles, he doesn't have much space to really camp, and we can move around the stage to get around it if needed.

Sonic- I've ALOT of MU experience (atleast I used to, probably still do), so I'd firmly say that it is a 60-40 Sheik. Needles absolutely destroy his means of approach, he may be fast, but his ball is stopped by them, and if he gets in, we can still tilt him and then rinse and repeat. Not much of a threat, can kill slightly better than us, but I mean just do not let him get into any strings. Don't rush into things, he has to approach, and if not then needles pressure him, when he tries to go inside, we have some way of punishment, simple things, easier to kill compared to other characters.

Bans- Brinstar, from my experience playing a friend of mine named Tesh, the up grab kills early when on that top part due to the low ceiling, and if it doesn't kill, he can punish us as he moves around the stage easily and can follow up on the throw with good prediction.

CP- FD and if that's banned, Smashville. Simply, he has no where to escape to, needles cripple him, wait for him to approach and then punish when inside. Pretty simple

I think we have a 60:40 against Sonic because we go on par with his speed plus have a better method of controlling the flow of movement (although he admittedly gets out of tilt locks fairly easily because of spring).

Pit is probably 55:45 from what I've seen from a bunch of Japanese matches. The only Pit I've played are either meh ones or Sagemoon, and that was a reeeeeally long time ago, and I wasn't using sheik at the time. From what I've seen, we can really get in his face to prevent him from camping us to death, he has a fthrow CG on us for a little bit, but aside from that, we dominate in close quarters, and we can really harass him if he's on the ledge if we're careful (emphasis on careful, uair has a loooooot of range), he has arrows that really harass our recovery, and that's where he's going to pin a lot of kill opportunities from. If you can reduce how often you get offstage, you're going to win a lot more, this matchup is very momentum based imo.

i play meekspeedy (sonic main not sure if you all know him) and i guess i can see it to be 60/40. But i would also Ban bf against sonic. From what ive learned from sonic mains, bf is like there playground >_< But i think that may just be a me thing.... i dont know that mu well on bf. I would agree to take him to fd and sv.
For pit i would be confident with 55/45 just because of mu experience and generally popular opinion of this ratio from both boards.

Side note!- Once the new tier list is released and bbr mu chart is released i will organize the charts according to that and will have a little suprise for all if you! (make this topic look boss) Ill also had in avg mu for each tiers, number in our favor and against etc etc..... in short ill give this topic a complete makeover like i promised a while back =)
Hopefully we can finish our version of the charts around the same time (maybe even before) the brawl backroom and bring some major life back to these sheik boards =D

BF is fine. Ban YI unless you have a great solution against invulnerable spindashes.

^Oh yeah, that's such a silly gimmick DK and sonic have.

^ Forgot Sonic could do that too

Sonic has some tricks but once you learn the mu its not that bad

Learning the match-up does not make the invulnerable spindash any less invulnerable.

Sheik is excellent on Battlefield. Her only real trick on Yoshi's Island is having a wall to cling or jump from, and sometimes trying to luck out with a helper ghost if for some reason you're validly getting edgehogged.