An Analysis of Pokemon Stadium 2

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#1
12:29 PM Apr 20 2012 2012
t1mmy
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An Analysis of Pokemon Stadium 2
Doom's PS2 post
11-30-2011, 01:04 PM


Personally I like PS1 a lot more than PS2. :3
But opinions aside, I just see PS2 as a 'normal stage' that sometimes has fun elements to abuse popping up every now and again.

If we're talking about the legality of Pokemon Stadium 2 we have to ask what exactly is the reason to include PS2 on a stage list? It's base form is a typical 'neutral stage' (a single, solid floor with two average platforms and average boundaries). Such a stage poses nothing out of the standard for a competitive stage, so that would mean we're looking at the stage transformations specifically. We must see these transformations as desirable additions to the otherwise neutral stage in order to propose it's degree of use.

_____________________
PS2 Transformations
-----------------------------
Electric

Two conveyor belts rotating outward. The two 'normal platforms' are replaced by three platforms in one of three arrangements.

Flying

A wind current created by rotating fans from the ground, blowing upward. Both 'normal platforms' are removed creating a single, flat floor as the arena.

Ground


The two 'normal platforms' are replaced with a pile of dirt toward the left with a small platform, and two platforms one above the other toward the right side of the stage.

Ice


The stage is mostly covered in ice. The two 'normal platforms' are replaced with two larger, ice-covered platforms.

----------------------------

Platform changes aside, there's a common theme to three out of four of these stages: that is they change the outcome of the player's inputs arbitrarily:

  • The Electric stage affects ledge mobility
  • The Ice stage affects ground movement and increases the chance of a pratfall
  • The Flying stage makes drastic changes in vertical physics (jumping, falling, and even the chances of getting Star KO'd).
These arbitrary changes to player input are not brought on by conscious choice by the players, they are the effects of a stage transformation that is outside of the player's direct control. In effect, they can be compared to Warioware-style Microgames in their 'random appearances' and sudden changes to the goals and tactics of the players.


At least some microgames can be ignored.

After looking through this in a much more complete way, I have to ask: are these 'random' transformations with 'arbitrary' effects on player's controls something that we desire in a competitive stage list? Are these elements that we as a community can stand up and say "Yes, this is what we want for our most competitive tournaments to display and showcase the talents and skills of our highest-level players"?

Does this stage fit in with our standard of competitive game play so that we can stand tall with the rest of the Fighting Game Communities?
#2
1:46 PM Apr 20 2012 2012
Phil Nye the SCIENCE Guy
Tons of Damage
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Phil Nye the SCIENCE Guy is a troll. Please ignore anything said by this user.

But t1mmy, PS2 is a great stage.

-The ice is negatable by walking/jumping, there's obviously no problems with weird gimmicks there, nothing like a DACUS across the entire stage or momentum changing specials.

-Wind is fun, who doesn't like a bouncehouse?

-Electric stage affecting ledge mobility? Pfffft, we all know that ledge mobility is so 5 minutes ago, planking is the cool thing nowadays.

Besides, it has a picture of a cat in a cabin! I mean, it's an adorable KITTEN chilling in the coolest cabin around. What's more chill than that? (all 'dem ice puns)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080212235057/ssb/images/thumb/0/08/Cat2.jpg/643px-Cat2.jpg
Last edited by Phil Nye the SCIENCE Guy, 1:06 PM on Jun 09, 2012
#3
12:59 AM Apr 21 2012 2012
Rayquaza07
Smash PhD
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Rayquaza07 cheated on the AiB Ladder. Don't bother playing this person.Rayquaza07 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Rayquaza07 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

ps2 should be legal this is still an argument lul?
#4
5:20 PM Apr 21 2012 2012
t1mmy
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t1mmy is an All is Brawl Tournament Administratort1mmy passed a Tournament Host Certification test.t1mmy keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.t1mmy positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.t1mmy has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.t1mmy is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.t1mmy wrote a blog entry that was featured on the All is Brawl front page!

Phil's argument is actually stronger than Rayquaza07's. XD

@Rayquaza07
I don't understand what you mean by 'legal'.
#5
8:15 PM May 19 2012 2012
ChaozSmashDynasty
Joined: May 2012

In my opinion, this stage is unfair. IC's profit greaty off the opponent's limited mobility in the ice areas.
#6
10:12 PM May 19 2012 2012
Rayquaza07
Smash PhD
Joined: Aug 2009
Rayquaza07 cheated on the AiB Ladder. Don't bother playing this person.Rayquaza07 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Rayquaza07 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

@Rayquaza07
I don't understand what you mean by 'legal'.

loled

legal as in you can cp it in tourneys
#7
10:48 PM May 20 2012 2012
Flynt Flossy
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Flynt Flossy cheated on the AiB Ladder. Don't bother playing this person.Flynt Flossy has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.Flynt Flossy is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.

Everytime I played rayquaza, he picked that damn stage... Request to be legal denied.
#8
6:38 PM May 23 2012 2012
Dahniska
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Joined: Feb 2010
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I don't think any stage that messes with the physics of the game should be legal. PS2 shouldn't be allowed.
#9
6:44 PM May 23 2012 2012
Hukster
Dead Weight
Joined: Dec 2010
Hukster helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

Ice part would benefit Ice Climbers far too much, shouldn't be legal.
Would you even read something as useless as this?
#10
4:54 PM May 26 2012 2012
Mizanin
Joined: Oct 2010

Okay, well I actually don't think this stage should be legal due to the transformations. Snake's DACUS can star KO in air, Ice Climbers with Ice, and the electric would be bad for characters that have 2 jumps or if they're heavy. The rock part is fine.
Last edited by Mizanin, 3:43 PM on Jun 11, 2012
#11
1:18 AM May 29 2012 2012
brillyx
Baller
Joined: May 2012

I feel like there are too many things going on for it to be legal. Especially the Electric transformation. players would have a hard time just staying on the stage.
#12
9:39 PM May 29 2012 2012
t1mmy
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Quote (originally posted by Rayquaza07):
legal as in you can cp it in tourneys

Every stage is 'legal' if that's true.

I don't hold PS2 as 'competitively valuable', however.
#13
8:45 AM Jun 9 2012 2012
The Cadet
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Sep 2009
The Cadet impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

...This debate is STILL going? Like, seriously?

PS2 has been legal virtually everywhere for almost a year now. People grumbled about having to get used to new mechanics. You know what happened afterwards? People adapted, and stopped *****ing. Why won't you follow the lead of, well, just about everyone? *****ing about randomness when you have upwards of 8 seconds of time to prepare for the situation is just weak.

You want competitively valuable? Why is Smashville, with its random platform start, competitively valuable? Why is Yoshi's Island competitively valuable? What does including Lylat Cruise or Pokemon Stadium 1 add to the ruleset?
Last edited by The Cadet, 10:11 AM on Jun 10, 2012
#14
3:03 PM Jun 14 2012 2012
Dahniska
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Quote (originally posted by The Cadet):
PS2 has been legal virtually everywhere for almost a year now.
  What? It's not been legal here where I live. In fact, I've only seen it legal in a few tourneys ever.

Quote (originally posted by The Cadet):
You want competitively valuable? Why is Smashville, with its random platform start, competitively valuable? Why is Yoshi's Island competitively valuable? What does including Lylat Cruise or Pokemon Stadium 1 add to the ruleset?

By your reasoning, I guess you want Picto legal too?
#15
3:21 PM Jun 14 2012 2012
Rayquaza07
Smash PhD
Joined: Aug 2009
Rayquaza07 cheated on the AiB Ladder. Don't bother playing this person.Rayquaza07 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Rayquaza07 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

suprised this thread isnt closed

stop johning about being bad on a stage and lrn 2 play it
#16
9:46 AM Jun 15 2012 2012
The Cadet
Addicted to Wifi
Joined: Sep 2009
The Cadet impressed a staff member by doing something smart.

Quote (originally posted by Diska):
What? It's not been legal here where I live. In fact, I've only seen it legal in a few tourneys ever.


Unity had it legal. Much of europe did as well.

Quote:
By your reasoning, I guess you want Picto legal too?


**** no. You know what the difference between PS2 and Picto is? PS2 gives you about 8 seconds to prepare for a transformation. Pictochat randomly takes away the ledge with no warning.
Scrub: Person who does not play to win
Noob: Person who does not play well enough to win
There's a difference. Figure out it.
#17
11:08 AM Jun 15 2012 2012
t1mmy
Tournament Administrator
Joined: Mar 2007
t1mmy is an All is Brawl Tournament Administratort1mmy passed a Tournament Host Certification test.t1mmy keeps people entertained by hosting fun events.t1mmy positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.t1mmy has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.t1mmy is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.t1mmy wrote a blog entry that was featured on the All is Brawl front page!

Before the URC got disbanded we were putting together a new format for stages. Pokemon Stadium 2 was not going to be included (neither was Brinstar/Rainbow).

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether Unity had the stage available for counterpick or not, you follow the rules of the tournament you're attending. Nationals like Apex did not and still do not use PS2 for counterpick. I don't know about your area, but the entire West Coast does not use PS2.

People don't even use the stage when it is available as a counterpick. My guess is simply because the transformations aren't highly strategic, they're just random.

Regardless, this isn't as much of an argument against PS2 as it is an archive of my post in the URC.  There's not even a need to argue because it's not used beyond a vast minority of games.
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