^It might be a 'walk before they can run' thing/reaction test.

"The needs of the many..."

I'll take the debate that double MetaKnight is the best team since, as a few posters have already pointed out, MetaKnight has been by far the most prominent character in the top of ladders for years now. Why use any other character when you can just use MetaKnight? He's techically everybody's best character.

More to the point... Isn't it common knowledge that most of the top skilled players frown on using MetaKnight? It's been brought up before, that a team of lower tiers had way better synergy and yet lost to a team of MetaKnights in a doubles ladder. Sure, there are doubles teams that use G&W+ZZS and may seem difficult to beat, but we all know they'd be unstoppable if they put the same amount of effort into using double MK.

Most people frown on using Meta Knight simply because he's used so much (i.e. he's boring). Assumptions are assumptions. Also, easiest doesn't = best. Best still doesn't = broken.
Is double MK the easiest team to use? Quite possibly. Is double MK the best team? That's questionable, as even respectable pro-bans don't think so. Is double MK "broken"? ...lol.

Many of Metaknight's multi-hit attacks (such as Forward and Back Aerials, Forward Tilt, Up Smash, and Mach Tornado) are useful in racking up damage, but can all be escaped with Smash DI. Metaknight's knockback comes from his down and forward smashes, glide attack, neutral aerial and his up special. These five moves are his only viable finishers, and none of them are meteor smashes. Metaknight lacks a projectile, characters can chaingrab or grab release combo him especially link who can DACUS immediately after the short air release and is ALWAYS guaranteed a successful hit. MK's lateral aerial movement outside of a glide or any special move is very poor. Metaknight has no ranged attacks, and is vulnerable to characters who can attack at a distance link's projectiles space well against MK. MK is Fairly light, so most attacks have good knockback against him. MK's attack power is very poor and very close-ranged while characters such as ike or DK who boasts incredible attack power and range KO him easily.

So Metaknight isn't looking gamebreaking to me at the moment.I understand what you guys are saying but for every time I've lost to an MK I've beaten one with link and Im no izaw or anything Im just saying maybe you guys aren't trying hard enough, maybe you guys are too lazy to just learn an MU, and maybe what you guys call a "Broken" character is just your own inability to accept your losses for what they really are.I "honestly" would like to understand what makes us so different, and Im not saying Im better than anyone else but if I can handle an MK why can't you?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FefhG04nPw

oh yea and FTW! > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FefhG04nPw

I don't think Mk should be banned from either singles nor dubs, but Mk rapes so I can see why players dont want him.
I wonder how many people are gonna complain... o lawd another mk ban is approaching.

Best doesn't always = broken, but it's possible, and it's extremely arguable in this case. There's lots of different reasonings, but the two most prominent ones are that he wins about 35%-50% of all tournament money, a figure not even contested by any other character, and the fact that most rulesets have to be modeled around his existence(ledge grab limit, removal of Brinstar/RC/Frigate/Delfino, one MK per team) because he would otherwise run even more rampant in tournaments if unrestricted, which is kind of just an admittance to his brokenness and all that.

But that's all arguing for singles, since dubz is a completely different deal, but I thought I'd just toss out some background information. Mostly at people with viewpoints like Dreyk, though. >___>


Now, about this, read what I said carefully afterwards on the matter, because it does kind of matter.


I legitimately think that double MK is not a bannable offense in doubles at all, but the flat out use of even one MK in a team might be. As I said, I'm no doubles guru, so I'm not in a position to say if MK is so good in doubles that you virtually HAVE to have him on your team as a requirement for victory, but if he is, then... yeah, that might call for a ban. But no, double MK does not follow that criteria really, as it's too specific of a combination that isn't even the best team. It'd be about as crazy as if we banned one specific combination of characters from Marvel vs. Capcom 3, for example. In cases like these, it's usually a single character causing all of the problems, not a combination, and that is what needs to be put under scrutiny.

And as I said, the best way to determine that is through a follow up poll asking about MK's legality in dubz(and maybe one for singles later down the road ), and putting some DAMN GOOD EVIDENCE in to support that ban. Feel me?

Link always has ground releases on every character unless he grabs the opponent over a ledge or they mash jump and break free during a pummel.  MK would have to work harder to play stupidly and fall for that.

Only bombs stop special moves like tornado and good MKs can tornado again before Link can draw another bomb.  MK's the best gimper with the best recovery in the game.  The Link/MK MU is +3 MK.
Ike's Fsmash hits frames 31-34 and ends 80; MK's Dsmash hits frames 5,6,10,11 and ends 35.  MK>Ike any day.

MK has been ranked consistently highest for good reasons in games with good people.  He's also been banned after much discussion by really good people.


It doesn't gain credibility when you post the same replay a 2nd and 3rd time.  (posts 62, 86 and 87)
_________________________________________
I wasn't going to post these because they don't mean anything.  Just an occasional win vs good players (who might not main MK) and I have bad days and play poorly too sometimes.  But since you brought up Link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME5OhTdtFVE&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJWssorrTmo&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvrPS80bD8&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b7vnz8eyMA&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPfCVCBJlXQ&feature=plcp
Were not scrubs whining because we can't play well.  We're arguing to ban MK because we have played good MKs and know what we're talking about.  A win here and there doesn't mean anything; MKs average 2 stocking my Link.  MK has held highest rank while every other character shuffles a bit.  He has no bad MUs and 1 even (Pikachu), does well, at worst, on every stage and massacres most characters on several like RC and Brin.  To CP vs any character, any stage, MK is a great choice at worst.  MK breaks the CPing system.

You didn't answer my question, I didn't ask how much discussion went on before the ban or why he was ranked so high, what I want to know is the reason for you not being able to handle it and work through the MU like I and Im sure other ppl can and do        Is it because you guys are lazy? because I get a soild 1-2 stock on MK with link when I put in enough effort and regardless if i main him or not (which I don't) im not the best brawler in the world so stop trying to says its because he's a perfect character or "broken" even MK has his disadvantages like everyone else, though there is said to be no bad MU for MK (which i think is BS) he still has his flaws and therefore he isn't worthy of being banned as long as there is POSSIBILITY of him losing you guys act like MK has 100% dominance over the game and isn't capable of being beat idc if the chances of winning are 50-50 or 90-10 as long as that chance exist then what is stopping you from taking it.my answer is your lazy, but i wnna hear yours.

My close aquantince is a Wario main, and he's pretty damn good too. But I've used MetaKnight against him a few times and won a majority of those matches even though I have very little experience using MK. From what I can comprehend based off this observation, Wario's matchup against MK should be worse than 50-50. I admit that this is based off only 1 example, but perhaps others can give input on this.

In response to Dreyk's recent question of "what I want to know is the reason for you not being able to handle it and work through the MU like I and Im sure other ppl can and do", I'll just say it involves my personal experiences with SSBB. I main Bowser yet characters listed as high tiers give me few trouble, such as Falco. The only character that gives me trouble with this main is MetaKnight, especially if the player is skilled. And if working through the matchup means having to use a high tier to compete with MK, then that ruins the fun of the game for me, as it's prevented me from entering tourneys. I'll admit it's a persona preference of mine.

I can understand that, I usually resort to a higher tier when brawling XCMSX, a Diddy Kong main, which I don't like doing I mean i'm not completely blind to what you pro-ban guys are saying Metaknight is one annoying son of a ***** especially when, like myself, you use or even main low tiers.But as i've said earlier, being lazy or doubting yourself and not being confident in your own abilitys is no excuse for banning an entire character whether it be doubles or singles Metaknight is not Giga Bowser who is incapable of being KO'd, let alone actually beaten.And like said I usually resort to a higer tier when brawling XCMSX but at the same i've beaten his Diddy Kong with Link because I knew even though my chances of beating him were near impossible they still weren't impossible.Just because Metaknight is hard and requires you to push yourself beyond what your use to doesn't mean we should just give up and just say **** it, lets ban that little meta-bastard we should laugh at it and pick Ganondorf anyway.

Dizzy I can deal with MK. Try reading posts.  Based on how much inaccurate information and what little evidence you've presented (1 video of a scrub MK losing+opinions), you're too inexperienced to understand. All the info's already there. To continue would be a waste of time.

/peace out

edit: ignore

But Dreyk, you should also read the beginning of the last post that I made, too.

I've been playing SSB since SSB64 to SSBB but if thats inexperienced, in your opinion, then so be it. Im not going to entertain all of the nonsense you posted but you claim you can handle Metaknight whether in teams or singles yet your posting several reasons you can't and that basically he's just too good in doubles and you respond with a hint of saltyness when I say you guys can't and thats why you want him banned so that must be the answer then, well yours atleast and its Drizzy brah, not Dizzy oh and just because.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FefhG04nPw

yeah I get what your saying john but that doesn't seem like a good enough reason, not as if it actually matters but still.

King Drizzy Dreyk
Joined: January 2012

Rizen
Joined: September 2009

Oh.

Since when does joining a website have to do with experience in playing a game.oh.

Smashboards account?