tinks uair beats the key right? that could mean a pretty low percentage kill. i dont know too much about the matchup just some speculation

Dk's upsmash also beats the key

If you hit his hand to the side, it doesn't since the hitbox is directly above DK.

I really don't care that TL's U-air beats G&W's D-air.  You can avoid it very easily regardless.

doesn't the turtle outrange almost all of marth's moves if perfectly spaced?

also, nade camping is greater than all of what marth offers

Nope. Marth can easily Jab, F-air, counter, N-air, F-smash, etc etc if he has the guts to challenge G&W's range.  Actually I should restate that, "if G&W has the guts to challenge Marth's range".

Getting grabbed out of nade camping and then thrown upwards for a juggle setup is not what I call greater than Marth's Up-B out of shield.  G&W can't afford to even TOUCH Marth's shield, because he will always get punished for it.  If he tries to do anything on the ground, Marth will just Up-B it or Dancing Blade out of shield which is safe against G&W.  If Snake isn't grenade shielding, G&W can just B-air his shield like he would against anyone else and go for a shield poke.

Believe it or not, Snake's grenade camping actually has FLAWS.  Marth's shield camping against G&W on the other hand doesn't have any real flaws outside of the mistakes the player makes.

what i said was for teh lulz too.

but seriously, LANDMASTER. it's rape on wheels

You lost me.

Wait, I just read the rest.
At first I thought you were serious.

marth and snake are his worst matchups but snake is definitely worse.. i mean you have no approach.. and if he comes for you then you really can't do anything because of how weak of a shield that g dubs has..

snake usually won't approach anyway because he can just camp nades.. tech chasing is useless vs him because of how long his roll is and its impossible to get a grab anyway.. if he just pulls out a nade constantly every attack you do vs him will hurt you too which is worse because you're WAY lighter.. the only advantage that g dubs has is that he's way better in the air.. its hard to get a good snake into the air.. but yeah he's like impossible..

marth is also an incredibly hard matchup though because all of his moves outrange g&w and his stupid dolphin slash that can beat the bair in the middle of it.. i don't have as much experience vs marth but what i've had shows me that they're both incredibly hard but snake is much harder.. at least you have an approach with marth..

just my 2 cents

Your first point is wrong. G&W's attacks all have slow startup, however, they have deceptive animations that don't let you see how far along the startup animation is, which gives the impression of fast startup.

Peach's nair is 2 frames, G&W's is what...ten?

Further, he doesn't have short ending time either.  Dair, bair, and fair all have a lot of lag.




Learn the timing and tech his dthrow as he throws you into the ground every time.  It becomes useless.



But his lag on aerials is long enough that you CAN punish him for missing an aerial...I do it often. xD



Spamming is a bad tactic anyway if your opponent is halfway decent and can powershield.



Tru dat.



Shield it, dash attack OOS or back away.



Learn the exact timing of it and it's properties.  There's a limited number of hits it will do on the shield (I know it by sound), then another hit occurs when the G&W touches the ground because it has a landing hitbox.  If misspaced you can shieldgrab the G&W between the last aerial hit and before the ground hitbox comes out, and if properly spaced you can usually do something out of shield; OR, learn what moves your character has that beat it and space with that move.

Your profile says you play Lucario.  Roll backwards and fsmash, he'll shy off the bair.  If he spaces high over your fsmash, run into the bair with your shield and you'll be close enough to him to grab at the right opening or jab him after he lands.



Don't let him hit you, lol.



The latter statement is correct for your character.  Outspace him using fsmash and ftilt.



If you're toon link, bomb spam when he's in the air and shieldgrab his smashes.

Donkey Kong is probably an even matchup, but use the fully charged punch to beat his bair with super armor.

Metaknight, shield his bair and up-B with the shield up (requires tap jump on).

Marth, do the same as Metaknight, or use counter.

Snake, pull grenade and shield, it rapes his back air, and ftilt and utilt outrange everything else he has.




I don't main G&W, but I main a character he counters, and I beat G&W's often- I know this matchup.  Hopefully my post helps.

D-throw does not become useless.
tech chasing Up smash

G&W can techchase chaingrab most of the cast with D-throw if he predicts right.

His N-air comes out frame 7 I believe. Which IS fast. Also, B-air and F-air are both 10 frames, which is fast. Not super fast, but not slow at all. U-air is 6 frames.

Up-smash has a release time of 2 frames from a charge. Also....I'm pretty sure Toon Link can't shieldgrab it. The shield advantage on Up-smash is -8, and Toon Link's shieldgrab is 12 frames. Toon Link doesn't counter G&W anyway except on wifi where powershielding is impossible. IRL where his stuff can be powershielded easily, approaching him isn't hard at all, and G&W does more damage per hit, and has better edgeguarding and KO power.

G&W's Jab and D-tilt are both fast, just outclassed by some of the faster pokes in the game.

D-air DOES have low ending lag, in that most attacks aren't fast enough to hit it out of shield. B-air is much the same way. If he fullhops either B-air or F-air, there is very little ending lag.

A note on GW's Dthrow... it's a techchase. Simple as that. It doesn't become "useless" when you tech it Praxis lol. Maybe if you're someone like Snake who has a huge roll and is better for Uthrowing anyway.

If you predict the techroll of a character with a mediocre to crap techroll you get a free hit or another grab. That's why it's called a techchase lol.

i thought nair was faster than uair?

why do we use nair for bucket braking if uair is faster?

nair is a faster move overall, uair has shorter start-up time

^ Correct. This is why you see GW use Nair before he does the bucket brake.

I get lazy and C-stick U-airs sometimes when it gets to be a pain to both DI and N-air. Just saying.

His smashes are all pretty laggy, so thats ur chance to punish him. His aerials are the only things i have a hard time with. So pick a character with good ranged attacks from the ground. Marth would be best. Remember, GnW has a horrible appraoch on the ground, so be ready for an aerial approach.

GW's smashes have IASA frames and have extremely low cooldown.

Unless you're talking about the startup time. In that case only his Usmash is actually somewhat laggy (24 frames), but the move releases from a charge in 2 (!!!) frames and is safe on block.

step 1) pick meta knight
step 2) go to luigi's mansion
step 3) spam b
step 4) spam dsmash until stock is taken
step 5) rinse and repeat until 3 stocks are taken

Ok mr.game and watch is the 2nd cheapest character in my opinion but thats only if the opponet gives him the power to do so. The bucket is the easist thing to avoid just dont use attacks that it absorbs. His dodge roll puts him at a disadvantage because it is slow giving u time to smash him. His recovery is cheap so just avoid it. If he is use his arial a down just move and smash. If he is using his a combo u hav to go tword the ledge so that he cant hold u in it. His smash up can be contered easy depending on what character u use. His cooking can also be avoided easily as if u r a small character just crawl under it and att because he has to stay there for a while.