I'm still hoping that someone will either post the frame data or tell me how I can get it. : (

I've had my opinion changed on many things when the other side has the better arguement. People who are deadset against anything shouldn't speak for other people.
Also, a "major situational advantage" is quite different from "complete situational advantage". There is NOTHING falco can do. Falco has no options at ALL. It doesn't have to be literal; you just interpret it like that. Unplayable can be anything where the other person has no options, either physically or mentally or whatever.

Let's break it down. Lazor/reflector wont reach. UpB/sideB won't really help - you'll get gimped. On stage, Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, Usmash, Grab don't have enough range. Fsmash, Dsmash, Dtilt probably do, but invincibility kicks in as they come into range, and there's enough lag that you'll get punished for it. You could try Dair spike on stage, but the range isn't enough and you'll get punished in your lag. You could drop off with Nair, Bair, Fair, Uair, Dair, but Fair and Dair are probably asking for a gimp, and Nair is almost as bad. If you did land Bair/Uair, they can wall-tech and punish with something immediately, then go for the gimp or run away. If you miss (and the planker probably isn't going to let you connect), you get punished for going for it, and most likely gimped.

Hm...



Counterpick against the planker?

In BRAWL terms, the game being unplayable LITERALLY means the match is unplayable; not figuratively.

If we were to look at this figuratively, all infinites make matches unplayable. You are making the opponent impossible to do anything while it is happening. There's nothing DK can do vs Dedede once he's in the infinite CG - same problem with Falco vs Meta if the Meta planks. The difference? You can ATTEMPT to do something to disrupt your opponent when they're planking instead of hope your opponent screws up the timing. This goes for all long-going CGs - including the ICs CG, Pika CG on some characters, etc. Also, to be plank without making yourself look like a dumbass, you must have the %/stock advantage which is harder than one thinks against a character like Falco, while there are no requirements for the infinites/IC CGs other than get caught in it.

Why don't we discuss banning the CGs/infinites? They aren't game breaking. Why don't we ban infinites/IC CGs all together since they can be used as a stalling tactic? Because there's a limit of %age. If you want to do anything, we should limit planking instead of hard banning it. I mean, hell, infinites and the IC CGs fit your requirements on unplayability more than planking does.

Okay, so what, there's a tiny margin of opportunity to hit someone who's planking. What makes it an issue is that small time when the character isn't invincible is occupied by the planker attacking (with their unpredictably fast uair in Meta Knight's case). So you're counting on the planking player missing with their instant up-air, and already being midway through executing your presumably slower attack on the planking Meta Knight, or hoping that your move out prioritizes the MK up air (...). That's a horrible system to allow, and I can only think of a select few characters who might have a chance at slightly hindering this MK strategy, and everybody else... well... you've lost the match after the first hit that you've taken. How lame.

Limit it? You mean, give it an incredibly soft limit that doesn't affect it at all(like D3's infinite..)? The ledge grab rule pretty much does that.

Just because you bold "brawl" doesn't make your statement true. It's still UNPLAYABLE (Hey look I can caps lock just like you =O); just being able to physically move your character doesn't mean it's playable. Most tournaments have a 300% cap on infinites to stop it from stalling the timer. There's already a rule against that. Also, your ice climbers argument doesn't work because Ice climbers have to be together and land a grab. All a planker has to do is get up by 1%, which is not hard at ALL, I don't know why you think it's difficult. The other infinites are character specific. Planking can't be stopped by about 3/4 of the cast, which makes it game breaking.

why is planking banned? oli cant do jack **** to mk while he's planking
it's essentially let mk win or die trying to kill him in a bad position

If you (or anyone else) believe planking is broken, show us by proving it with tournament results that have plankers consistently dominating and crushing everyone.

Planking does not dominate tourneys because the two best characters can deal with it, but most others even in top/high tier cannot, with planking around what reason do we have not to just go snake/MK permanently?

I like this guy, he makes lots of sense.

Luckily Zelda and a well aimed/timed Din's fire will make anyone trying that eat a stage spike and even if it doesn't I can always go for a ledgesteal and makes them get back on stage. However, it does sound like stalling to me *shrug*

I don't have a strong opinion for or against it (even though it sounds pretty lame) but i do have a question. Why ask for tournament results?I would think experience in matches overall would be evidence enough that it's effective enought o win. Saying "Results plz" over and over just sounds like you ran out of points to make.

He's asking for tourney results because he knows that nobody planks 100% of the time and wins, and that's mostly because of the abundance of MKs and Snakes. There are many characters, however, that cannot deal with it. Even if yours can, supporting planking because you chose a character that happens to have an answer to it is kind of stupid. Mine does, and I'm against it.

Almost every character can make it under most stages. So I should be able to homing attack the bottom of the stage simply because everyone can get down to hit me. They can ATTEMPT it. I mean. They'll DIE but they have a chance to ATTEMPT it. It's not as if I'm removing myself from the game.

This guy has a serious point.

I was JUST gunna post something similar to this. Good job. You stole it out of my brain. J/k.

But seriously, if we're gunna discuss anything worthy of banning, it should be CG->Release combos that turn into infinites that are impossible to get out of. Wario's grab release with Yoshi, Ness against Marth... I mean wtf people, why are these even allowed? It's the stupidest ****ing thing I've seen.

Planking basically forces you to think strategically on how to apporach the opponent without totally owning yourself. I'd have to say that a perfect B-air and F-airing D3 that makes it impossible for one to approach is more hazerdous and cheap to some of the cast then a single act of "stalling"...

Jeeze, why... Why is this so heavily debated?

grab release is the only thing stopping wario from being SSSS tier

I think Krystedez is angry at me for infiniting him on Yoshi's Island. XD

polt

stop being so mean to wario's

IT ISN'T COOL!!!

So should we ban hitting people when you die and come back and cant be hurt?

Well, now I can tell you're just being an *** to me now.

Describe what you're trying to get at - are you attempting to do a game breaking argument? Or a stalling one? I was only arguing upon stalling, not game breaking. Figuratively speaking goes along the base of ground breaking. Literally goes along the base of freezing/glitching/stalling to make the game unplayable.



No duh.



It's only an example. That's all. Besides, there are characters, such as Ganon, who WILL get grabbed three times per match by the ICs. I will say my example was bad, but it still holds true that one grab = -1 stock for mostly the entire cast ("mostly" because of Snake).

It is hard when we're talking along the lines of facing characters with great projectile games such as Falco.



Let's go through a list of characters that can attempt to do something without getting gimped out of a stock by being planked by Meta Knight;

Peach, Bowser, DK, Diddy, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Zelda, Toon Link, Zamus, Pit, R.O.B, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Pikachu, Charizard, Ness, Lucas, G&W, Snake, and Sonic.

Does this look like 3/4ths to you? 23/36 (discluding transformations except Samus/Zamus since only one can change on free will). Roughly 2/3rds of the charcters can deal with it in some way (Kirby, Dedede, and Meta Knight all have multiple jumps and decent range. Kirby has Stone which none of Meta's aerials can stop. Dedede has super-armor in the up-B, and his neutral-B will either SD both or Meta will hit Dedede up or off to the side. Meta is ditto).

Terios - difference between one or the other is that, to kill the opponent during planking (no matter who they are), you HAVE to make contact with the opponent (aka D-airing them when you're Meta). With Sonic Homing stall, any character with a ****ty recovery, regardless if the Sonic does anything or not to gimp them, will die if they attempt to go down there.