Melee Stadium Badges

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#41
12:13 AM Jun 19 2009 2009
Nintendude1189
Multi-Man King
Joined: Mar 2007
Nintendude1189 has provided valuable testing services for the All is Brawl website.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Nintendude1189 rooted for the $208,097,414 New York Yankees 2009 championship team.Nintendude1189 positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.Nintendude1189 has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.Nintendude1189 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Nintendude1189 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.Nintendude1189 is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.Nintendude1189 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Brawl or Melee's Multi-Man modes.

Ok, here's the current issue:

As you know, Melee Stadium isn't totally done being coded yet. The only real issue is that timed totals are calculated, not "in-game," so you get impossible totals. If this is fixed, scores will have to be refreshed before they are recalculated. If badges are implemented, you'll get a lot more people adding their scores (since you have to do that to get the badge) and a lot of improper totals will end up in the system. So yeah....I wish neal would just fix this problem already.
#42
1:58 PM Jun 19 2009 2009
molle
Target Smasher
Joined: Mar 2008
molle regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.molle has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.

I can make a topic in Site Feedback about finishing melee stadium if anyone thinks it would do any good...(?)
#43
3:21 PM Jun 19 2009 2009
the hylian
Super Slugger
Joined: Mar 2008
the hylian rooted the Green Bay Packers to their fourth Super Bowl win, Favre or no Favre.the hylian regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.the hylian has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.the hylian has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.

Well I hope it does... if not we at least tried
#44
4:45 PM Jun 19 2009 2009
Nintendude1189
Multi-Man King
Joined: Mar 2007
Nintendude1189 has provided valuable testing services for the All is Brawl website.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Nintendude1189 rooted for the $208,097,414 New York Yankees 2009 championship team.Nintendude1189 positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.Nintendude1189 has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.Nintendude1189 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Nintendude1189 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.Nintendude1189 is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.Nintendude1189 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Brawl or Melee's Multi-Man modes.

Quote (originally posted by molle):
I can make a topic in Site Feedback about finishing melee stadium if anyone thinks it would do any good...(?)


Please do. I've talked to him a lot over AIM about it but I guess he really needs to see everyone, not just me, being vocal about it before it'll get done. If you make a thread please explain why it's important (we can't add the badges or publish articles advertising Melee Stadium until it is complete) for reiteration.
#45
2:49 PM Jun 23 2009 2009
SW-1988
Boss Battle King
Joined: Feb 2008
SW-1988 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.SW-1988 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.SW-1988 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.SW-1988 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.SW-1988 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.SW-1988 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.SW-1988 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.SW-1988 holds or held a world-record combined total time in one of Brawl's Target Smash modes or Melee's Target Test.SW-1988 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Brawl or Melee's Multi-Man modes.SW-1988 holds or held a world-record combined total time in Brawl's Boss Battles mode.

still no progress ? =(
#46
6:35 PM Jun 23 2009 2009
Nintendude1189
Multi-Man King
Joined: Mar 2007
Nintendude1189 has provided valuable testing services for the All is Brawl website.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Nintendude1189 rooted for the $208,097,414 New York Yankees 2009 championship team.Nintendude1189 positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.Nintendude1189 has written an exemplary guide on the All is Brawl forum.Nintendude1189 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Nintendude1189 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.Nintendude1189 is connected in the Six Degrees of Smash web.Nintendude1189 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Nintendude1189 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Brawl or Melee's Multi-Man modes.

Um...a thread was made about it. neal responded and I talked to him on AIM about it again, and still I don't see any results. Feel free to bump that topic (in Site Feedback) with your complaints.
#47
12:13 AM Jul 1 2009 2009
NessFreaK
Joined: Mar 2008
NessFreaK has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.

I cant believe you think 3:30 btt is easier than 90k hrc.

I have trouble with sub 4:30, but hitting 110k hrc isnt too bad.

i say 110k hrc cut off.
#48
5:35 PM Jul 1 2009 2009
phazon
Joined: Jul 2008
phazon regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

You probably play a lot of HRC, which is why you think that. I'm the opposite of what you said though I don't particularly like either BtT or HRC.
Click here for British Melee records!
#49
7:13 AM Jul 9 2009 2009
phazon
Joined: Jul 2008
phazon regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

Ok I didn't read through this thread, only about half way down the first page, but someone please tell me why complete and total mediocrity is being rewarded? 5:00 in BtT? I could get that in under an hour without trying. 5:00 should be threshold for beginner if anything. 3:30 should be pro and maybe 4:00 should be inter. Personally i'd make 4:30 beginner, but you seem to be way too lenient with these requirements, so 5:00 would be barely acceptable imo.

I don't play much HRC but 100k pro seems ok-ish. Personally i'd choose 110k. 80k inter and 50k beginner.

It seems like you're trying to attract people to Melee stadium with hopes of becoming a "pro" defined by a total that really doesn't show proof of professional play. Don't you think people should have to work for pro?

EDIT:

Lol @ me being the last to post. I didn't realise >_>

EDIT:

Damn thresholds are done. Atleast I said what I think ^^
#50
12:05 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
Treklink256
Stadium Arcadium
Joined: Mar 2008
Treklink256 is an AllisBrawl Moderator in the Stadium section!Treklink256 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Treklink256 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Treklink256 is a member of the evil league of evil. The fly in your soup. The pebble in your shoe. The demon in your bed. The peel on which you slip. A pin in every hip. The fear that keeps you awake. And your tears are all the pay I'll ever need.Treklink256 has won a Stadium Gaming Olympics tournament.Treklink256 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Treklink256 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.Treklink256 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.

Yhea I'm pretty sure the thresholds are finalized now.

You probably could get under 5:00 in BtT without trying. But that's because you're already practically pro in that mode as it is. I have 3:50, and I feel that's a pretty darn good total, not "pro", but better than inter, and still pretty respectable. What feels like "pro" to someone who never plays a certain mode isn't going to feel like "pro" to someone who is a top player in that mode. I agree that 5:00 BtT is barely acceptable, but "barely" is still acceptable, so it's a good threshold imo. My 90k HRC took a ton of work, and I'm more proud of that total than any of my others save for All-Star.

I think NessFreaK's post above is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. He doesn't think that 110k HRC is that difficult, but that 4:30 BtT is challenging. To me, 4:30 BtT isn't too hard, but 110k HRC for Pro is WAY too strict. Nintendude1189 said that sub 3:10 for 10MM inter was probably the easiest inter threshold I've proposed. But to me, it's the hardest inter threshold there, and the only one I have yet to obtain. Reality is probably somewhere in between. So what we need is a happy medium.

I remember neal saying that he wanted to make the thresholds attainable to the typical smasher. Oftentimes beginners look at our scores and our totals and think "wow, I'll never be able to do that", so they don't even bother trying. If our thresholds are more obtainable, still challenging, but obtainable, that may encourage them to play. I remember that seeing the mediocre totals getting points back at the former ngc-elites is part of what got me into Stadium in the first place, so I agree with him.

The point of these badges isn't to say "give me recognition because I'm hella good". The point of them is to say "I play this mode a lot and have gotten pretty good at them". And I think the 50k/90k HRC, 3:30/5:00 BtT, 3:00/3:10 10MM, and other barriers we've decided on say exactly that.
"i like buttballs better" - tipo mastr
#51
12:56 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
phazon
Joined: Jul 2008
phazon regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

I am a typical smasher. I'm pro in one mode and it isn't BtT so i'm not reaaally a pro there and I still think 5:00 is too easy. And even when I was new to SVR and I first picked up BtT I don't recall having any trouble with sub 5 (And not a huge amount with sub 4 either =/). How many comments of ridicule have been removed from Smashtom's BtT compilation vids, because all was able to get was sub 5?

Also somewhere you said that 8 minutes is passable for beginner? On your highscores list you said "If you don't have sub 8 you just aren't trying hard enough" so that's kind of contradictory there. But that just goes to show that the requirements are really lower than they ought to be.

I remember some time ago hearing that in BtT sub 3:20 made you pro, sub 4 made you inter and sub 4:30 made you beginner. What happened between then and now (now with better strats making it even easier to get a good time) that has changed this? Also I can guartuntee that the people with 5:00-8:00 really haven't tried very hard or played very much and can therefore not care very much about that mode. You're saying that people who don't want to try deserve recognition for the laziness.

I understand that you want to attract people to melee stadium, but I just don't see how this is going to achieve it. I mean I never played 3mm seriously (never even completed every character), but I could go and get inter pretty easily, but it doesn't encourage me to play more, it makes me think that it's easy and I don't need to try.
#52
1:23 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
Treklink256
Stadium Arcadium
Joined: Mar 2008
Treklink256 is an AllisBrawl Moderator in the Stadium section!Treklink256 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Treklink256 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Treklink256 is a member of the evil league of evil. The fly in your soup. The pebble in your shoe. The demon in your bed. The peel on which you slip. A pin in every hip. The fear that keeps you awake. And your tears are all the pay I'll ever need.Treklink256 has won a Stadium Gaming Olympics tournament.Treklink256 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Treklink256 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.Treklink256 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
I am a typical smasher. I'm pro in one mode and it isn't BtT so i'm not reaaally a pro there and I still think 5:00 is too easy. And even when I was new to SVR and I first picked up BtT I don't recall having any trouble with sub 5 (And not a huge amount with sub 4 either =/). How many comments of ridicule have been removed from Smashtom's BtT compilation vids, because all was able to get was sub 5
By "typical smasher" I mean someone who doesn't play Stadium. You're already a Stadium player, so I'm not referring to you. I looked at Smashtom's 5:00 BtT vid. Sure there's going to be a few trolls who aren't impressed with his total, but that's true for anyone who has a compilation video that isn't wr-calibur--heck I've even gotten a few on mine. His is still a beginner, from his total, but only barely.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
Also somewhere you said that 8 minutes is passable for beginner? On your highscores list you said "If you don't have sub 8 you just aren't trying hard enough" so that's kind of contradictory there. But that just goes to show that the requirements are really lower than they ought to be
8min+ is lower beginner. 8:00-5:00 is upper beginner. Neither is eligible for a badge under my proposed system. What is contradictory about that?

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
I remember some time ago hearing that in BtT sub 3:20 made you pro, sub 4 made you inter and sub 4:30 made you beginner. What happened between then and now (now with better strats making it even easier to get a good time) that has changed this? Also I can guartuntee that the people with 5:00-8:00 really haven't tried very hard or played very much and can therefore not care very much about that mode. You're saying that people who don't want to try deserve recognition for the laziness
I don't recall ever hearing of those thresholds. Pro has been 3:30 since the wr ths was under 3:10, as far as I know. And once again, people with 5:00-8:00 will not recieve a badge under our system.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
I understand that you want to attract people to melee stadium, but I just don't see how this is going to achieve it. I mean I never played 3mm seriously (never even completed every character), but I could go and get inter pretty easily, but it doesn't encourage me to play more, it makes me think that it's easy and I don't need to try
You're already a Stadium player, so I wouldn't necessarily expect you to. If inter is too easy, go for pro. If you don't want the badges, then you don't deserve them and won't get them. If you don't try, you won't get them.
"i like buttballs better" - tipo mastr
#53
1:37 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
phazon
Joined: Jul 2008
phazon regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

Quote (originally posted by Treklink256):
By "typical smasher" I mean someone who doesn't play Stadium. You're already a Stadium player, so I'm not referring to you. I looked at Smashtom's 5:00 BtT vid. Sure there's going to be a few trolls who aren't impressed with his total, but that's true for anyone who has a compilation video that isn't wr-calibur--heck I've even gotten a few on mine. His is still a beginner, from his total, but only barely


It had a LOT of comments like that. He just removes them all >.>

Quote (originally posted by Treklink256):
8min+ is lower beginner. 8:00-5:00 is upper beginner. Neither is eligible for a badge under my proposed system. What is contradictory about that


It seems you consider beginner everyone who isn't inter or pro. I see it more as first steps towards inter. If you don't qualify for beginner in a specific mode, then you really do need to try harder (provided you even want to be beginner in a specific mode).

Quote (originally posted by Treklink256):
I don't recall ever hearing of those thresholds. Pro has been 3:30 since the wr ths was under 3:10, as far as I know. And once again, people with 5:00-8:00 will not recieve a badge under our system


I know they won't recieve a badge, but i'm just saying 8:00 to be a beginner is insanely easy and it reflects on other thresholds.

Quote (originally posted by Treklink256):
You're already a Stadium player, so I wouldn't necessarily expect you to. If inter is too easy, go for pro. If you don't want the badges, then you don't deserve them and won't get them. If you don't try, you won't get them.


But that's the point. You can get them without trying.
Click here for British Melee records!
#54
1:47 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
Treklink256
Stadium Arcadium
Joined: Mar 2008
Treklink256 is an AllisBrawl Moderator in the Stadium section!Treklink256 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Treklink256 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Treklink256 is a member of the evil league of evil. The fly in your soup. The pebble in your shoe. The demon in your bed. The peel on which you slip. A pin in every hip. The fear that keeps you awake. And your tears are all the pay I'll ever need.Treklink256 has won a Stadium Gaming Olympics tournament.Treklink256 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Treklink256 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.Treklink256 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
It seems you consider beginner everyone who isn't inter or pro. I see it more as first steps towards inter. If you don't qualify for beginner in a specific mode, then you really do need to try harder (provided you even want to be beginner in a specific mode).
Well, yhea, anything that is below inter IS beginner. That's how I see it, because that's how the ranking system works and always has worked.
Quote (originally posted by phazon):
I know they won't recieve a badge, but i'm just saying 8:00 to be a beginner is insanely easy and it reflects on other thresholds.
The fact that 8:00 is insanely easy is EXACTLY why I'm callling it beginner.  Beginner implies easy. If being a beginner isn't supposed to be easy, then what is?

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
But that's the point. You can get them without trying.
Except that without trying, you won't get the badge, and thus your point is null. Nobody is going to get sub 5:00 without at least looking at some vids.
"i like buttballs better" - tipo mastr
#55
2:01 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
phazon
Joined: Jul 2008
phazon regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

It's just that I never saw beginner as ANYONE who wasn't inter or pro. Like I wouldn't consider someone who has an hour total as a beginner. Beginner to me implies that you have basic knowledge of the game and are on your way to becoming a skilled player. 8:00 doesn't show any skill.

How is my point null? The fact is that you need almost to skill to meet these goals and the badges wont reflect genuine skill, rather false achievements.
#56
10:39 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
Treklink256
Stadium Arcadium
Joined: Mar 2008
Treklink256 is an AllisBrawl Moderator in the Stadium section!Treklink256 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Treklink256 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Treklink256 is a member of the evil league of evil. The fly in your soup. The pebble in your shoe. The demon in your bed. The peel on which you slip. A pin in every hip. The fear that keeps you awake. And your tears are all the pay I'll ever need.Treklink256 has won a Stadium Gaming Olympics tournament.Treklink256 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Treklink256 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.Treklink256 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
It's just that I never saw beginner as ANYONE who wasn't inter or pro. Like I wouldn't consider someone who has an hour total as a beginner. Beginner to me implies that you have basic knowledge of the game and are on your way to becoming a skilled player.


The term "beginner" could mean someone with only basic knowledge of the game, or it could mean someone with a sub 5:00 total. Likewise, "pro" could mean someone with advanced knowledge, or it could mean someone with a really good total. Semantics aside, for the purpose of this discussion, "beginner" and "pro" refers to totals, not something abstract like knowledge, and therefore have hard-set definitions and prerequisites.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
How is my point null? The fact is that you need almost to skill to meet these goals and the badges wont reflect genuine skill, rather false achievements
The inter badges AREN'T SUPPOSED to reflect genuine skill. That's what the pro badges are for.

Quote (originally posted by phazon):
8:00 doesn't show any skill
Nobody here ever said it does. Why are you still talking about it?
"i like buttballs better" - tipo mastr
#57
11:11 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
PSS
Joined: Apr 2009
PSS helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.

Hey, Nintendude1189 are you in charge of the All is Brawl Stadium; just wondering because you really seem to know what your doing.
#58
11:16 PM Jul 9 2009 2009
マリオ133
Stadium Smasher
Joined: Apr 2008
マリオ133 rooted for the $208,097,414 New York Yankees 2009 championship team.マリオ133 positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.マリオ133 did something funny.マリオ133 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.マリオ133 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.マリオ133 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

If I may add something I believe 3:10.00 THS for 10MM may be a little harsh for people that have no melee or brawl experience and decide to start playing this mode. I find it hard my self being a moderit stadium player to just sub 3:20.00 let alone 3:10.00. Anyways I believe it should at minimum be 3:20.00 and for others that believe this is to high so be it show us how low you can go and get the pro badge at least that will give you a challenge. Trek I want to here what you think about the matter.
#59
12:12 AM Jul 10 2009 2009
Treklink256
Stadium Arcadium
Joined: Mar 2008
Treklink256 is an AllisBrawl Moderator in the Stadium section!Treklink256 holds or held a world record score in one of Brawl's Stadium modes.Treklink256 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.Treklink256 is a member of the evil league of evil. The fly in your soup. The pebble in your shoe. The demon in your bed. The peel on which you slip. A pin in every hip. The fear that keeps you awake. And your tears are all the pay I'll ever need.Treklink256 has won a Stadium Gaming Olympics tournament.Treklink256 has a combined score of 130,000 feet (39,624 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 90,000 feet (27,432 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.Treklink256 has a combined score of 100,000 feet (30,480 m) in Brawl's Home Run Contest or 60,000 feet (18,288 m) in Melee's Home Run Contest.Treklink256 spent way too much time obtaining the maximum score of 999,999,999 points in Brawl's All Star mode.Treklink256 holds or held a world-record combined total score in Melee's All-Star mode.

^Follow the strats and vids in NDs guide, and you'll fare much better. Ask around in the discussion thread if you need help with anything specific. I don't think I've seen you there. 10MM is my worst mode, hands down, and even I don't think sub 3:10 for inter is unreasonable.
"i like buttballs better" - tipo mastr
#60
12:14 AM Jul 10 2009 2009
マリオ133
Stadium Smasher
Joined: Apr 2008
マリオ133 rooted for the $208,097,414 New York Yankees 2009 championship team.マリオ133 positively represents All is Brawl and actively brings new users to the site.マリオ133 did something funny.マリオ133 impressed a staff member by doing something smart.マリオ133 helped an All is Brawl member with a problem.マリオ133 regularly contributes to the All is Brawl Stadium community.

Ok just wanted your input on it, but I guess if someone is series about this mode they'll make it that far icon_smile
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